Something coming in March

"Booshman, post: 134225, member: 25641" said:

Someone going to message Toy Bro and fill him in on who Mandora is?

What’s the inside joke here? Does that mean he doesn’t know anything about Thundercats?

She looks great, right? Very glad she’s finally made it to plastic.

"krazycp, post: 134226, member: 24991" said:

What’s the inside joke here? Does that mean he doesn’t know anything about Thundercats?

That was heavily implied in my comment yeah.

"krazycp, post: 134226, member: 24991" said:

What’s the inside joke here? Does that mean he doesn’t know anything about Thundercats?

I actually watched that episode in TC Roar and re-recognized Mandora again. :laugh Maybe let Toybro watch the same series :biggrin

And as usual the great sculptors and designers at 4 Horsemen and Super 7 mess up the details. Her helmet detail is wrong.
Surely someone could have watched an episode or at the very least looked on Google before releasing the prototype picture.

The negativity on here is exhausting. Instead of celebrating what S7 is doing, in their own way and style, there are constant complaints about figures not being to others’ liking or according to certain specified 100% cartoon accuracy. I actually left He-Man.org because of people who constantly complained. I bet the same happened here before. Collectors are welcome to their opinions to improve figures. What’s happening here, according to me personally (and not speaking as an admin but as a collector first), is insult after insult. S7 is not delivering your preferences so the outcome is vile and degrading comments. We are all welcome to completely disagree, respectfully, but what I see on here is beyond that. And it is very off-putting sadly.
I’m loving the Mandora figure. We finally have her in plastic form and I think 4HM’s interpretation is wonderful and in line with what they want to achieve. Which is: figures that are cartoon inspired/resembled with aspects of the LJN line included/mixed in here and there. Like hybrid of both versions. That is why it is not 100% accurate either way, and until that isn’t understood what S7 makes will remain confusing/unacceptable/weird/wrong etc to those who expect replicas of the cartoon.

I agree with Sebastiaan she looks great for whats been shown of her. I'm sure she will have at least two heads as that seems to be the theme with Thundercats ultimate's.
We haven't even seen the figure revealed showing a full frontal view yet.

"Sebastiaan, post: 134231, member: 25673" said:

The negativity on here is exhausting. Instead of celebrating what S7 is doing, in their own way and style, there are constant complaints about figures not being to others’ liking or according to certain specified 100% cartoon accuracy. I actually left He-Man.org because of people who constantly complained. I bet the same happened here before. Collectors are welcome to their opinions to improve figures. What’s happening here, according to me personally (and not speaking as an admin but as a collector first), is insult after insult. S7 is not delivering your preferences so the outcome is vile and degrading comments. We are all welcome to completely disagree, respectfully, but what I see on here is beyond that. And it is very off-putting sadly.
I’m loving the Mandora figure. We finally have her in plastic form and I think 4HM’s interpretation is wonderful and in line with what they want to achieve. Which is: figures that are cartoon inspired/resembled with aspects of the LJN line included/mixed in here and there. Like hybrid of both versions. That is why it is not 100% accurate either way, and until that isn’t understood what S7 makes will remain confusing/unacceptable/weird/wrong etc to those who expect replicas of the cartoon.

Sebastiaan, you couldn't be more on point brother, I agree with you 100%.
It's so exhausting listening to all the complaints these past years; it has always blown my mind that the Thundercats community and fans aren't just happy with a toy line that isn't canceled after Liono and mummra are released.

I think people forget one thing.

You know what's worse than figures that are not a 100% match to the cartoon or comic strip? NO FIGURES AT ALL! Just be happy for what we are getting and say thank you. If you don't like the figure just don't buy it, go make a custom figure if you think you can do better.


As for the Mandora figure. I think she looks pretty darn sweet. I have never been a big fan of the character personally (I never understood the hype), but dam right I'm going to buy one for my collection, and I hope she is a 2pack with her bike.

Great job Super 7, keep them coming and I will keep sending you money.

:tygra :rataro

"Mad Bubbler, post: 134233, member: 512" said:

Sebastiaan, you couldn't be more on point brother, I agree with you 100%.
It's so exhausting listening to all the complaints these past years; it has always blown my mind that the Thundercats community and fans aren't just happy with a toy line that isn't canceled after Liono and mummra are released.

I think people forget one thing.

You know what's worse than figures that are not a 100% match to the cartoon or comic strip? NO FIGURES AT ALL! Just be happy for what we are getting and say thank you. If you don't like the figure just don't buy it, go make a custom figure if you think you can do better.


As for the Mandora figure. I think she looks pretty darn sweet. I have never been a big fan of the character personally (I never understood the hype), but dam right I'm going to buy one for my collection, and I hope she is a 2pack with her bike.

Great job Super 7, keep them coming and I will keep sending you money.

:tygra :rataro

Look I get the counter argument that “why should we be happy we are getting something and thus just accept what we’re getting”. Truth is it isn’t the case; although it seems like a great excuse when it suits some collectors and non-collectors.
S7 is open to feedback. I myself have discussed it at length with Brian Flynn. Will they take our suggestions and implement them? The chances are there! Will they choose not to? Entirely possible; for many reasons I might add! Costing, tooling, importance, popularity etc. So yes we should be thankful and supportive of the line we are getting, add our 2c in a positive way, critique and guide where applicable, but also accept and appreciate what we’re getting is their interpretation of what they think the perfect figure is. I simply cannot find fault with Mandora. If there are tiny differences to the cartoon I’ve watched for over 30+ years, so be it. I never even realized it. And I won’t be throwing a tantrum of vitriol if it isn’t an exact replica of the animation cell, cartoon bible or any other reference point.

Excited for this release, she has a more prominent role than most characters that never had a figure. Her design has always been a good one and she is always high on everyone's list. Can't wait to see the bike.

I really hope we get a Snowmeow at some point.

I agree the nitpicking is a bit much. The figures are not perfect, but all things considered they're pretty damn good. Super7 does need to see what it can do to speed up the delivery process.

"Mark M, post: 134230, member: 5058" said:

Her helmet detail is wrong. Surely someone could have watched an episode or at the very least looked on Google before releasing the prototype picture.

Mark, if you mean the yellow band being replaced by that targeting crosshair, the helmet pictured is an 100% an alternate head. And, for what it's worth, that targeting crosshair appears in "Mandora – The Evil Chaser" when she finds Lion-O being chased by Burnout, so it's straight out of the cartoon.
[ATTACH=full]2189[/ATTACH]

"Booshman, post: 134228, member: 25641" said:

That was heavily implied in my comment yeah.

Where is this coming from? Since when is Toy Bro not a knowledgeable ThunderCats fan? I think we need to realize that a good lot of us are unusually knowledgeable, but that's no reason to denigrate people who aren't superfans. Never in his reviews have I gotten the sense that he doesn't know the show at least marginally well.

"thezaxfactor, post: 134236, member: 362" said:

Mark, if you mean the yellow band being replaced by that targeting crosshair, the helmet pictured is an 100% an alternate head. And, for what it's worth, that targeting crosshair appears in "Mandora – The Evil Chaser" when she finds Lion-O being chased by Burnout, so it's straight out of the cartoon.

Thanks for posting that. I assumed the target in the visor was from some episode, but I couldn't remember where it came from when I saw the figure. I personally don't like the head with the target and the mouth open, but like you said - I assumed it's an alternate head and I'm pretty sure there will be a head I like better. Outside of that specific head, though, I think it overall looks like a good figure from the one shot we have.

They specifically mentioned her Electro-charger so I wonder if that's a toy in the works or they just mentioned it to add flavour to the description.

"thezaxfactor, post: 134236, member: 362" said:

Mark, if you mean the yellow band being replaced by that targeting crosshair, the helmet pictured is an 100% an alternate head. And, for what it's worth, that targeting crosshair appears in "Mandora – The Evil Chaser" when she finds Lion-O being chased by Burnout, so it's straight out of the cartoon.
[ATTACH=full]2189[/ATTACH]...

No, I mean this section above the visor.

I assume it's going to be her electro-charger, and I know scale in the show is not consistent amongst vehicles/weapons/settings, but man, that thing is going to be big!

Re: people being "overly" picky - they get tired of hearing no one seem to care. I'm not saying it's "right", just "the same". Complainers put a higher value on things meeting expectations (whatever that may be for them) under the guise of "improving" the product. When a company does something that meets their standards, they feel like they won the lottery. Enjoyment explosion with a blast radius of years. Apologists put a higher value on people feeling appreciated and having fun. Their expectations are almost always met and they're happy to be on a ride that doesn't have too many peaks or troughs.
Are those not A-type and B-type personalities? One objective, one subjective. I think we should be careful about not pointing our complaints at people, that's all. It's a community, there are all types in every community, there's only a community, a group, through tolerance.
I feel for both sides and i get it. I'm a much bigger fan of silverhawks, i'm so happy to get them, i don't care if quicksilver isn't chrome or is a matte silver, and i groan at yet another "they're silverhawks not grayhawks lolol".
But i saw the thundercats line less from being a fan of the stories and personalities and more as a document, a representation of the cartoon, and moreso the ground breaking animation aesthetic. In 1985 nothing LOOKED as cool as the thundercats. I'm not a fan of the characters nearly as much as i am that beautifully rendered aesthetic. I collect them for that reason, and it's not why super7's making them.
Silverhawks gave me an opportunity to step back and see it from other collector's perspectives - they don't have lower standards, they're just collecting for other reasons than i do.
I guess... I'm... Complaining about myself and other complainers, that other complainers are complaining about, but complaining about their complaining.

Also, i did not know that a "mandora" is an 18th century lute. And i think i plug my phone into an "electro charger." The future is now.

"Sebastiaan, post: 134231, member: 25673" said:

The negativity on here is exhausting.

I could say the same for every announcement being met by the Super 7 cheerleading squad.

"Sebastiaan, post: 134231, member: 25673" said:

I actually left He-Man.org because of people who constantly complained. I bet the same happened here before.

Would you say I constantly complain? Go look at my posts and tell me that my contributions to this community have not been overwhelmingly positive.

Booshman Thunderian Legend, Messages: 1,215 Likes Received: 965 in percentage terms 79% of my posts got a positive response. The exact same number as yourself Seb.

If you mean Mark, the dude is the top contributing member of the site by quite a margin. All around great guy.

Who are these "constant complainers", I don't think they exist. I think there's certain things you don't like to hear and you pin that badge on people to shut their side of the argument down.

You can make the assumption that people may have left because of "negativity". I know for a fact that some members have either left entirely or don't contribute regularly anymore because they were sick of having their opinions shut down and branded as "hate".

"Sebastiaan, post: 134231, member: 25673" said:

Instead of celebrating what S7 is doing, in their own way and style, there are constant complaints about figures not being to others’ liking or according to certain specified 100% cartoon accuracy. Collectors are welcome to their opinions to improve figures. What’s happening here, according to me personally (and not speaking as an admin but as a collector first), is insult after insult. S7 is not delivering your preferences so the outcome is vile and degrading comments. We are all welcome to completely disagree, respectfully, but what I see on here is beyond that. And it is very off-putting sadly.

I think you need to look up what vile and degrading actually mean, there's really things that fit that description out there in the real world. Saying something is not accurate about a digital render of future plastic product is not that at all. Why is it insulting to criticise a company? I don't see anyone saying anything personal about Super 7 staff members, it's all comments based on sculpting and decisions based around toys.

"Sebastiaan, post: 134231, member: 25673" said:

I’m loving the Mandora figure. We finally have her in plastic form and I think 4HM’s interpretation is wonderful and in line with what they want to achieve. Which is: figures that are cartoon inspired/resembled with aspects of the LJN line included/mixed in here and there. Like hybrid of both versions. That is why it is not 100% accurate either way, and until that isn’t understood what S7 makes will remain confusing/unacceptable/weird/wrong etc to those who expect replicas of the cartoon.

How can the S7 incorporate LJN characteristics of a figure that they never made? If "as of model as the LJN figures were" is an acceptable standard then nothing can ever be said to need altering or correcting can it? If cartoon accuracy isn't even improtant, why are you asking Toy Bro questions like this:

"TC.org: He looks quite bulky with what appears a slightly different ab crunch. He also sports the new elbows and knees, which areis quite pleasing to the eye. What is your opinion on how this character has translated into toy form? Did they capture the cartoon look accurately?"

I have no problem having a discourse about toys and discussing the positive and the negatives but you need to not pull the "I'm sick of CONSTANT negativity" card, just because a comment is made about inaccuracy.

"Sebastiaan, post: 134234, member: 25673" said:

S7 is open to feedback. I myself have discussed it at length with Brian Flynn. Will they take our suggestions and implement them? The chances are there! Will they choose not to? Entirely possible; for many reasons I might add! Costing, tooling, importance, popularity etc. So yes we should be thankful and supportive of the line we are getting, add our 2c in a positive way, critique and guide where applicable, but also accept and appreciate what we’re getting is their interpretation of what they think the perfect figure is. I simply cannot find fault with Mandora. If there are tiny differences to the cartoon I’ve watched for over 30+ years, so be it. I never even realized it. And I won’t be throwing a tantrum of vitriol if it isn’t an exact replica of the animation cell, cartoon bible or any other reference point.

Where are these vitriolic tantrums Seb? I don't see them. Who's throwing a tantrum? As for feedback, I'd love to be able to have a proper line of communication with Brian and the Thundercats team. That's why I started the other thread about it. This figure is so early in production they don't even have a physical copy of the figure to show, yet you are already making excuses for reasons why elements of the design might not be able to be changed.

"Mad Bubbler, post: 134233, member: 512" said:

Sebastiaan, you couldn't be more on point brother, I agree with you 100%.
It's so exhausting listening to all the complaints these past years; it has always blown my mind that the Thundercats community and fans aren't just happy with a toy line that isn't canceled after Liono and mummra are released.

If these were still $25 a figure I'd be more inclined to agree. The be grateful you're getting anything mantra is only used when applied to Thundercats, doesn't apply to TMNT does it? Why should I have a lower standard because we're lucky to get anything at this point? With this attitude any price increase or figure design can be excused.

"Mad Bubbler, post: 134233, member: 512" said:

You know what's worse than figures that are not a 100% match to the cartoon or comic strip? NO FIGURES AT ALL! Just be happy for what we are getting and say thank you. If you don't like the figure just don't buy it, go make a custom figure if you think you can do better.

Great job Super 7, keep them coming and I will keep sending you money.

If Super 7 doesn't have the license other companied will come and fill the void. I'm more than capable than making great Thundercats figures, unfortunately I'm not the license holder so I can't mass produce my own. As someone who loves the art of action figures and is hugely into Thundercats I'm going to always offer my honest opinion on whatever Thundercats toys make it to market.

http://thundercats.org/forums/index.php?threads/booshmans-custom-action-figures.9262/

"thezaxfactor, post: 134236, member: 362" said:

Where is this coming from? Since when is Toy Bro not a knowledgeable ThunderCats fan? I think we need to realize that a good lot of us are unusually knowledgeable, but that's no reason to denigrate people who aren't superfans. Never in his reviews have I gotten the sense that he doesn't know the show at least marginally well.

I think the sites go-to guy for the current action figure line should have more than a marginal knowledge of the show. When S7 asks you for a list of inaccuracies and you have to reach out to another more knowledgeable youtuber for answers, then in my opinion, you don't know the show well enough to have an opinion worth printing.

"Booshman, post: 134242, member: 25641" said:

I could say the same for every announcement being met by the Super 7 cheerleading squad.


Would you say I constantly complain? Go look at my posts and tell me that my contributions to this community have not been overwhelmingly positive.

Booshman Thunderian Legend, Messages: 1,215 Likes Received: 965 in percentage terms 79% of my posts got a positive response. The exact same number as yourself Seb.

If you mean Mark, the dude is the top contributing member of the site by quite a margin. All around great guy.

Who are these "constant complainers", I don't think they exist. I think there's certain things you don't like to hear and you pin that badge on people to shut their side of the argument down.

You can make the assumption that people may have left because of "negativity". I know for a fact that some members have either left entirely or don't contribute regularly anymore because they were sick of having their opinions shut down and branded as "hate".



I think you need to look up what vile and degrading actually mean, there's really things that fit that description out there in the real world. Saying something is not accurate about a digital render of future plastic product is not that at all. Why is it insulting to criticise a company? I don't see anyone saying anything personal about Super 7 staff members, it's all comments based on sculpting and decisions based around toys.



How can the S7 incorporate LJN characteristics of a figure that they never made? If "as of model as the LJN figures were" is an acceptable standard then nothing can ever be said to need altering or correcting can it? If cartoon accuracy isn't even improtant, why are you asking Toy Bro questions like this:

"TC.org: He looks quite bulky with what appears a slightly different ab crunch. He also sports the new elbows and knees, which areis quite pleasing to the eye. What is your opinion on how this character has translated into toy form? Did they capture the cartoon look accurately?"

I have no problem having a discourse about toys and discussing the positive and the negatives but you need to not pull the "I'm sick of CONSTANT negativity" card, just because a comment is made about inaccuracy.



Where are these vitriolic tantrums Seb? I don't see them. Who's throwing a tantrum? As for feedback, I'd love to be able to have a proper line of communication with Brian and the Thundercats team. That's why I started the other thread about it. This figure is so early in production they don't even have a physical copy of the figure to show, yet you are already making excuses for reasons why elements of the design might not be able to be changed.



If these were still $25 a figure I'd be more inclined to agree. The be grateful you're getting anything mantra is only used when applied to Thundercats, doesn't apply to TMNT does it? Why should I have a lower standard because we're lucky to get anything at this point? With this attitude any price increase or figure design can be excused.



If Super 7 doesn't have the license other companied will come and fill the void. I'm more than capable than making great Thundercats figures, unfortunately I'm not the license holder so I can't mass produce my own. As someone who loves the art of action figures and is hugely into Thundercats I'm going to always offer my honest opinion on whatever Thundercats toys make it to market.

http://thundercats.org/forums/index.php?threads/booshmans-custom-action-figures.9262/



I think the sites go-to guy for the current action figure line should have more than a marginal knowledge of the show. When S7 asks you for a list of inaccuracies and you have to reach out to another more knowledgeable youtuber for answers, then in my opinion, you don't know the show well enough to have an opinion worth printing.

Much of my comments have been about things in general and it seems like you didn’t get that. I didn’t call out anybody. I simply stated that this thread in particular has been filled with negativity. (Btw I agree, Mark M is a super nice guy!!!)

Am I a Super7 cheerleader? Of course! I love what they do with the line and will always be positive about it, even if there are aspects that can be improved, which I will approach respectfully and politely. As for the rest of your comments, I have said my piece and will leave it there. There are several points that were taken out of context in your replies (like Mandora who I know never had an LJN fig, my comment stated “here and there” which refers to characters who did have LJN counterparts).

I am sure that the other mods agree with me that we do not want conversations to escalate into the very same drama that pushed me and others away from the other forum. One couldn’t access a thread without infighting, belittling and hatred - losing sight about the whole pupose of the forums: to talk passionately about toys. We want this place to be one where we enjoy talking TOYS. Not make it unpleasant for members who have to read through paragraphs of negativity instead of just enjoying discussions and opinions about figures. You end up not bothering going there because it is too much hassle to scroll through threads to get to the good parts.

Let’s get back on topic and discuss Mandora and whatever else is coming with her.

You won't call anyone out because you can't. You won't directly address my points because you you'll end up tieing yourself in knots trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. You complain about negativity but when asked where you see it you want to move on. There is no escalation, no drama, belittling or hatred, the only negative I take from coming here is the lack of respect I have for your inability to engage in a debate as an adult. You don't want people to have to scroll past comments that are not gushing about how great a toy is to get to ones that do, oh please. Where are these long paragraphs of negativity you are talking about by the way?

You want to talk passionately but only with people who agree with you. Do you think my POV doesn'y come from a passionate position? I've spent countless hours making custom toys, remastering the video and audio of episodes. Thundercats is a big part of my daily life and all for the love of it. I took an hour this morning to write an empassioned response to a guy I don't know on the internet about toys, it's all coming from passion or I wouldn't have bothered. I see you want to control the discourse here and as tempted as I am to just say screw it then, I'm out, carry on without me. But I feel that would be just what you want, the same thumbs up, pat on the back to Super 7 comment again and again and again. You say you will bring up any improvements to Brian respectfully and politely. Who isn't being respectful or polite?

"Booshman, post: 134245, member: 25641" said:

You won't call anyone out because you can't. You won't directly address my points because you you'll end up tieing yourself in knots trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. You complain about negativity but when asked where you see it you want to move on. There is no escalation, no drama, belittling or hatred, the only negative I take from coming here is the lack of respect I have for your inability to engage in a debate as an adult. You don't want people to have to scroll past comments that are not gushing about how great a toy is to get to ones that do, oh please. Where are these long paragraphs of negativity you are talking about by the way?

You want to talk passionately but only with people who agree with you. Do you think my POV doesn'y come from a passionate position? I've spent countless hours making custom toys, remastering the video and audio of episodes. Thundercats is a big part of my daily life and all for the love of it. I took an hour this morning to write an empassioned response to a guy I don't know on the internet about toys, it's all coming from passion or I wouldn't have bothered. I see you want to control the discourse here and as tempted as I am to just say screw it then, I'm out, carry on without me. But I feel that would be just what you want, the same thumbs up, pat on the back to Super 7 comment again and again and again. You say you will bring up any improvements to Brian respectfully and politely. Who isn't being respectful or polite?

You are more than welcome to pm me so that I can address all of your questions. I won’t do it here because you have twisted my words to suit your arguments or completely misunderstood them and making assumptions I was never even talking about. That type of response is what has no place on this forum.

You are however getting very personal and if not attacking (for lack of a better word) ToyBro, you are now doing the same to me. So I am now calling you out and giving you a warning for that type of behaviour on here. It isn’t welcome and I have been trying to avoid it since the onset of this to and fro.

That will be my final public response and you and I are welcome to continue “offline”.

Just as a side note, I have the greatest respect for your work and your talent. I have mentioned it many times before. I can see you are a passionate TC fan and that is wonderful to see as I know how much joy it has brought me in my life; I can just assume it has done the same for you. And that is brilliant!

"Sebastiaan, post: 134248, member: 25673" said:

You are more than welcome to pm me so that I can address all of your questions. I won’t do it here because you have twisted my words to suit your arguments or completely misunderstood them and making assumptions I was never even talking about. That type of response is what has no place on this forum.

You are however getting very personal and if not attacking (for lack of a better word) ToyBro, you are now doing the same to me. So I am now calling you out and giving you a warning for that type of behaviour on here. It isn’t welcome and I have been trying to avoid it since the onset of this to and fro.

That will be my final public response and you and I are welcome to continue “offline”.

Just as a side note, I have the greatest respect for your work and your talent. I have mentioned it many times before. I can see you are a passionate TC fan and that is wonderful to see as I know how much joy it has brought me in my life; I can just assume it has done the same for you. And that is brilliant!

I don't know you or "Toy Bro" personally, so I don't know what you are considering a personal attack. We're talking about toys here man, get some perspective. I made a quip alluding to him having no great knowledge of Thundercats, proveable fact. This is no terrible thing as a youtuber in general, but to be the go to guy for this site when you are asking questions about accuracy, he is not qualified to answer them. I've tried to talk to you like an adult, you say you're being attacked.

Call me out, give me a warning, I do not care mate. This is a Thundercats forum, TRUTH, JUSTICE, HONOR and LOYALTY. I hope to uphold those ideals and conduct myself accordingly. Last I checked that was welcomed here.

Any of the other mods want to step in and back you up on that warning I'd love to hear it? Zaxx, Wileycub, is this really what this place has come to? I've done nothing but give honest opinion and taken the time to give measured thought out repsonses.

If that is not welcome on the site then BAN ME.

"Sebastiaan, post: 134231, member: 25673" said:

...I’m loving the Mandora figure. We finally have her in plastic form and I think 4HM’s interpretation is wonderful and in line with what they want to achieve. Which is: figures that are cartoon inspired/resembled with aspects of the LJN line included/mixed in here and there. Like hybrid of both versions. That is why it is not 100% accurate either way, and until that isn’t understood what S7 makes will remain confusing/unacceptable/weird/wrong etc to those who expect replicas of the cartoon.

I think I should have stated that the rest of the figure looks great, it's just that mistake on the helmet is wrong and when the rest of the figure is so cartoon accurate there really is no reason why the helmet should not also be correct to the animation design. It's a bit frustrating that unlike the various other "Ultimates" figures Thundercats always seems to be the one that needs to have fans point out various mistakes on pretty much every wave of figures.
Since the start of the Thundercat's Ultimates line, even the Mattel Classics figures, they were not going for the hybrid style of the MOTUC which were a mix vintage toy, minicomic and cartoon etc. So there really is no point in saying they are doing a hybrid of cartoon and LJN toys. In fact if I am not mistaken I believe the only nod to the LJN toys has been the inclussion of Mumm-Ra's staff and Grune's knucle dusters.