Movie Club: Raiders Of The Lost Ark

WELCOME EVERYBODY TO THE LATEST DISCUSSION THREAD OF THE NEW MOVIE CLUB, DESIGNED TO RUN PARALLEL WITH R.O.C.K.S. A big thanks to everyone that are joining us through all of this.

The next few weeks we're going to do another acclaimed series of films from the 80s, the Indiana Jones films. We're starting this week with Raiders Of The Lost Ark

Remember any ideas for films to discuss are most welcome, and should be made on the Movie Club Introduction thread (the sticky one), and anyone is welcome to add their thoughts about movies already discussed on their respective threads.

Just a friendly reminder to everyone that, whilst fans are obviously welcome to passionately discuss and give their views on these movies, please remember to keep things on a friendly footing and respect your fellow posters.
Also, please do not post where or how to find the full movie online. And do not post asking others to PM it to you. You are however allowed to watch the movie in whatever manner you want.

Excellent choice here! I'm a huge fan of Raiders of the Lost Ark. I first saw the film in the theater as a 10-year old back in 1981; IIRC, my Dad took me to see this. I was already a Harrison Ford fan due to his Han Solo character in the first two Star Wars films.

Amazing adventure film/thriller, from start to finish. From the very beginning sequence with the tarantulas, altar/bag of sand, jumping over the deep pit, chase through the forest, etc. you knew this was going to be an incredible action film.

One of my favorite scenes was when Indiana Jones took the idol from the corpse (of the guy who betrayed him, but later got "spiked") and said, "Good bye, Satipo". For years after I first saw this, I always though IJ said, "Good bye, Stupido" due to the character's stupidity/greed - LOL.

The sequence when Marion Ravenwood is first introduced was extremely iconic; when you see her involved in a drinking "contest" where she effectively drinks the big guy under the table (without even really getting drunk herself) you knew she wasn't an average damsel in distress. The tense fight scene following this between Jones & the Nazis (which led to the compete destruction of the bar) was fantastic. Interesting that the evil Arnold Toht was able to unintentionally graft the image of the "map" (or at least one half of the map) for the Ark onto his hand - quite horrific.

The scene with the little monkey & the "bad dates" was very iconic as well.

Of course, no one can forget the scene when the sinister-looking swordsman went through all of his fancy footwork/swordwork in order to threaten/scare Indy, who just ended up shooting him - LOL.

The ending sequence with Indy telling Marion not to look, and the Nazis melting/disintegrating when they see the angels (who then turn into skeletons/demons) coming out of the Ark was both horrifying & extremely impressive.

Great final scenes when Indy has the meeting with the government agents in D.C., who assure him that the Ark will be studied, etc....and then you finally see it boxed up & in a warehouse. This was very understated & one of the best endings I've seen in cinema.

Trivia:

-The heavyset government agent who said "Top Men!" to Indy in the final scene was played by the late William Hootkins, who also played "Porkins" - one of the X-wing fighter pilots who fought against the Death Star at the end of Star Wars: A New Hope (1977).

-In the scene when Belloq (Paul Freeman) was yelling to Indy standing on the cliff (when Indy was threatening to destroy the Ark), a fly landed on Freeman's face, and he didn't even try to brush it off - even though it looked like it was going into his mouth....wow; surprised that they didn't re-do this scene - ha ha.

-UK Actor Al Molina played Satipo, IJ's doomed & greedy cohort in the beginning of the film. He is probably best known for playing Doctor Octopus in Sam Raimi's Spider Man 2 (2004), but has been in numerous other films over the years - including: A significant role in the great horror flick Species (1995).; a small but important role in one of my favorite Jim Jarmush films, Coffee & Cigarettes; the father figure in the underrated US family holiday drama, Nothing Like the Holidays (2008); and a cameo in the UK drama Meantime (1984), also starring Gary Oldman & Tim Roth.

When the makers of "Jaws" and "Star Wars" come together for a movie you can be sure to expect some real fireworks. And boy they did not disappoint! "Raiders of the Lost Ark" epitomizes the adventure movie genre. If you do a web search of "best adventure movies", there's a good chance that ROTLA will be listed right at the top.

There is just so much packed into this one movie that it's difficult to mention every great scene, character, dialogue, joke and stunt. I had read that the boulder chase scene was inspired from the Carl Barks "Ducktales" comics. This movie, with its excitement-filled plot almost feels like a "Ducktales" cartoon, in a good way of course. The stunts that were conceived for this film could only be described as insanely impressive. And this was done during a time before CGI.

Only a master filmmaker and story writer can take a profession like archaeology, which many would consider to be very mundane, and turn it into something this thrilling. I'm sure a lot of kids must have wanted to become archaeologists after watching this movie. Maybe some did. I love Ford's take on the character. He's calm and cool, and despite being a professor, a man of few words. He reminds me of the man-with-no-name Clint Eastwood characters.

All the other characters are equally well written. Marion is headstrong and can certainly hold her own against any opponent. Salah is loyal and hilarious. While the Nazis are kinda cliched "evil villains who want to take over the world", Belloq is a much more interesting villain. His motives aren't evil, even if his means are. He is a curious archaeologist, not very different from Jones himself. If you think about it, the only reason the bad guys got their hands on the Ark was because of Indie. They were digging in the wrong place, and all Indie had to do was destroy the Headpiece. But it was his curiosity that got the better of him, leading him and the baddies to the Ark.

Just seen this for the first time in waaaay too long. Great film.

Indiana Jones is basically the James Bond of the archaeology world. Literally everything about this movie would be perfectly at home in a Bond film. Well, OK, maybe not the ending with the ghosts, but apart from that, the fights, the chases, everything just screams Bond. And that's no bad thing.

Karen Allen as Marion is also great, she's not just there as eye-candy, she's a tough cookie who can hold her own against most things the movie throws at her. John Rhys Davies' Sallah is great comic relief, and made a welcome return in the third film. Denholm Elliott as Marcus Brody too, not a major character, but important in his own little way. He too would come back in the sequel.

It's worth mentioning the influence on a couple of kids' shows. There was one episode of The Sooty Show in the 80s where Sweep became "Superdog" and the music they used was the Indiana Jones music. Because I hadn't seen any of the films in question at the time, for a few years I erroneously assumed the music to be from Superman! Also, when the Chipmunks did their series of movie parodies, one of them, "Daytona Jones And The Pearl Of Wisdom" incorporated elements from all three movies (as there were at the time). The opening sequence of this one found its way into their parody.

And for my money it has one of the most stomach churning moments in film history. I should be referring here to the end sequences when the villains' faces all melt/burn away, but oddly enough I'm not. The bit that turns my stomach is earlier on, one brief shot, during the escape from the temple sequence, all those skeletons, there's one where we see a snake slithering out through the mouth of a skull. That's the bit that always makes me shudder. Not even the earlier sequence when they are surrounded by snakes (although that is admittedly tense). Just that one shot. Great line earlier on the same subject from Sallah, "why is the floor moving?"

Still, all things considered, it's worth it. Great film.

[USER=25438]@LiamABC[/USER] Totally agree with your Indie and Bond comparison. Though Bond has a lot more high-tech gadgets at his disposal and he does his world-saving with a little bit more panache and while wearing a tux. ;)

I particularly love the way, after the exciting opening sequence, we then go straight to the university, showing us the "Clark Kent" side to this hero's persona.

"LiamABC, post: 126014, member: 25438" said:

I particularly love the way, after the exciting opening sequence, we then go straight to the university, showing us the "Clark Kent" side to this hero's persona.

Not very different than how the old Bond movies started. We get an exciting action pre-credits scene and then we go straight to M's office where Bond is getting his new assignment. :biggrin

I actually like that Indie has the "Clark Kent" persona. It gives the character more depth and makes him someone we can relate to. When he's not on these wild adventures, he's a normal boring professor who lives in a normal boring house. It's a good thing the writers didn't go the easy (and cliched) route of making Indie into a sort of soldier of fortune/treasure hunter who lives in some shack in a hard to reach place and spends most of his time in a small crowded bar, waiting for his next adventure. So the fedora-wearing, whip swinging hero thing is just one side of this character and not the entire character. So in a way he is like Scrooge McDuck. :)

Agreed again, it's the whole "it's the same person, bet you wouldn't believe it!" thing, and it works well. Those students in the classroom would never believe his wild adventures.

With Bond though, that analogy is only half accurate. After all, when he's getting a briefing for his new assignment, that's not "his other life". When we see him relaxing, it's usually at the casino over some high stakes game - which does make for a different kind of tension still. So Bond doesn't really have a "Clark Kent" side.

"LiamABC, post: 126016, member: 25438" said:

So Bond doesn't really have a "Clark Kent" side.

Bond rarely had any other side than being just Bond! Even when going undercover into the villain's lair, his "secret" identity was... James Bond! :laugh Instead of regular spies who would change their appearance, create a fake identity with all the necessary documents and background history, Bond would simply walk in calmly, with this Walther PPK (which all the villains knew was standard Mi6 issue), say his real name and claim to be from Universal Exports. :)

That's what I've always loved about Bond! He was pretty much everything a real spy would never be (kinda like how Indie is everything a real archaeologist isn't). That is the whole charm and appeal of the character. That's why I'm not a fan of the Craig Bond movies because they are trying to make Bond more and more like a real spy.

Daniel Craig as Bond is a mixed bag, same as the others. All the Bond stars who were in the role for any length of time had at least one stinker. Connery's last two or three were pretty weak, Moore had a couple of howlers, and apart from Goldeneye, Brosnan's were all crap.

I've seen Craig's first three, Casino Royale I would probably appreciate more on a second viewing especially as I have since read the book: I thought the film was a bit slow to get started despite masses of action scenes, but once the plot actually started, it was passable enough. Quantum Of Solace is the only Bond film I've seen in the cinema, and I wasn't impressed at all. Skyfall however is one of the best Bond films ever, and I have gone on record as saying it has the best Bond villain ever.

The trouble with Craig is that he doesn't inhabit the part the way Connery, Moore and Brosnan did. You don't notice him, he doesn't stand out. There's nothing that screams Bond about him.

Watched this film tonight. It's been a few years since I last seen ROTLA.

I love the Indiana Jones films.
I believe of the original trilogy this is the one I seen last. The first being Temple of Doom then The Last Crusade then Raiders of the Lost Ark.

So many great scenes from the action packed opening it's pretty much non-stop adventure and excitement with great characters.

As I have mentioned before I am quite a wrestling fan so one of my favourite scenes in the movie is the plane fight which features the legendary British wrestler Pat Roach.
Other favourite scenes being the swordsman scene and the truck chase.

Surely the scene with Toht getting his hand burned had to inspire the scene in Home Alone with Harry getting his hand burned lol. :D

Wonderful adventure movie.

It's a shame the toyline for such a wonderful movie was a bit of a failure. Kenner really brought their A-game to the toys but sadly due to a problem with the licencing agreement the figures did not get released until a year after the film was in the cinema. Had they been available at the time it would have been more successful.
I didn't even know there was Indiana Jones toys until I was in college.

"LiamABC, post: 126018, member: 25438" said:

Daniel Craig as Bond is a mixed bag, same as the others. All the Bond stars who were in the role for any length of time had at least one stinker. Connery's last two or three were pretty weak, Moore had a couple of howlers, and apart from Goldeneye, Brosnan's were all crap.

Yes, all the Bond stars have some bad movies (some REALLY bad ones as well!). But even so, I still find the bad ones entertaining to watch and happily watch them whenever they are on TV. In contrast, I don't find that same re-watch value in Craig's movies, irrespective of if they are good or bad.

"LiamABC, post: 126018, member: 25438" said:

Skyfall however is one of the best Bond films ever, and I have gone on record as saying it has the best Bond villain ever.

I too would definitely rank Silva among the top Bond villains. He was very much like the villains of the Moore and Connery films. I especially love his "two rats" story. I enjoyed "Skyfall" more than any other of Craig's films, but I didn't like the climactic stand-off at the castle.

"LiamABC, post: 126018, member: 25438" said:

The trouble with Craig is that he doesn't inhabit the part the way Connery, Moore and Brosnan did. You don't notice him, he doesn't stand out. There's nothing that screams Bond about him.

Exactly. That's why I said that Craig's Bond leans more towards real life spies. Being inconspicuous and unremarkable. And Craig doesn't really have a big range of expressions. He plays Bond with his singular pouty look. Bond HAS to be (at least a little) over the top, a little larger than life, a little funny. Otherwise it's not Bond. Realism be damned!

"Mark M, post: 126019, member: 5058" said:

I believe of the original trilogy this is the one I seen last. The first being Temple of Doom then The Last Crusade then Raiders of the Lost Ark.

I actually saw TOD first, then this one, then TLC. :)

"Mark M, post: 126019, member: 5058" said:

As I have mentioned before I am quite a wrestling fan so one of my favourite scenes in the movie is the plane fight which features the legendary British wrestler Pat Roach.

Roach was in all three Indie movies, wasn't he? Playing different characters of course. :biggrin

"Mark M, post: 126019, member: 5058" said:

I didn't even know there was Indiana Jones toys until I was in college.

I didn't know there were Indiana Jones toys until right now when you mentioned it! LOL! :laugh I guess the marketing really was poor. I'll have to check them out on the net. The only IJ merchandise that I am familiar with is the Super Nintendo video game. And it was quite good, but there's one point where you can get stuck and then never move forward. That was annoying! :mad

Roach was in all three. He got killed twice in this one!

And if you saw Temple Of Doom first, then that makes a kind of sense as it's a prequel! Thinking about it, we should have covered that one first, oh well, we're covering it next anyway so it doesn't matter!

"Wilycub, post: 126022, member: 25043" said:

I didn't know there were Indiana Jones toys until right now when you mentioned it! LOL! :laugh I guess the marketing really was poor. I'll have to check them out on the net. The only IJ merchandise that I am familiar with is the Super Nintendo video game. And it was quite good, but there's one point where you can get stuck and then never move forward. That was annoying! :mad

[USER=25043]@Wilycub[/USER] you really should look them up.
The Indiana Jones toyline has quite a fascinating in its history.

Kenner really went all out and made all the majority of characters from the movie, including Indiana in three different outfits, Marion, Toht, Belloq, Salah, German Mechanic, (Roach), Cairo Swordsman and the spy along with vehicles and playsets like the Ark, streets of Cairo, map room, horse and German transport truck.
Pretty much all the characters for most of the major scenes.

There was a few factors that prevented the toyline from being a massive success like Kenner's Star Wars figures.

Firstly the long release after the movies release. Granted this situation worked out fine for Kenner's Star Wars but that movie was such a phenomenal success people were buying all types of Star Wars merchandise. As successful as Indiana Jones was, it wasn't in Star Wars category for merchandise. Children just weren't to excited for the toys so long after the movie had already been out for so long.

Secondly the toy market had changed in 1982. In 1982 aside from The Empire Strikes Back toys still selling well two more marketing juggernauts had just appeared on the toy shelves that were really vying for children's pocket money. Hasbro's G.I. Joe and Mattel's Masters of the Universe.
Also more to the point, with the exception of G.I. Joe the action figure market was moving away from the smaller 3.75" figures as most figures were going for the larger 5 inch scale like MOTU, Super Powers, Secret Wars, Defenders of the Earth etc.

Thirdly is how ''toyetic'' the movie characters were. With the dated uniforms and clothes and weapons and vehicles, these figures really didn't make a very striking impression on the toy shelves. Indy in his clothes and Belloq looked really drab in comparison to the sci-fi out fits of Star Wars, the huge colourful chiselled bulks of the MOTU figures and quite static compared to G.I. joe with all their articulation and various accessories.
You would really have a hard time playing with them in any adventure with other toys.
At the smaller scale the only real interaction you could use the vehicles and playsets for would possibly be G.I. Joe, but there really isn't that much excitement to be got out of the ark, map room or streets of Cairo sets.

And that's just the Raiders of the Lost Ark toys. We will cover the other toys in the other movie discussions. ;)

"LiamABC, post: 126023, member: 25438" said:

And if you saw Temple Of Doom first, then that makes a kind of sense as it's a prequel! Thinking about it, we should have covered that one first, oh well, we're covering it next anyway so it doesn't matter!

I had forgotten about that! :00 TOD is indeed set before ROTLA. But it doesn't really make that much difference, story-wise, whichever of the two you watch first, as long as you watch TLC after the two. :biggrin

[USER=5058]@Mark M[/USER] Thanks for the info on the toys, Mark! When it comes to toys, you are the guru. :thumbsup I just checked out the toys and they're not bad at all. The sculpting and articulation are pretty good, quite true to their movie counterparts. But as you said, these were "70s style toys" released in the 80s and that too in competition with "Star Wars" and the toy based cartoon series (MOTU, etc.). Again as you said, even without the competition, I don't think the toys would have been as successful as say Star Wars toys. I can't imagine many kids wanting a figure of Marion (in her white dress) or Belloq or even Salah to play with. The problem is not the toys but the characters in the movie aren't really written in a way that they would make for exciting playtime.

Come to think of it, ROTLA doesn't feel like a movie that is aimed at that much a younger age group as "Star Wars". Actually, I'm kinda surprised how they got away with only a PG rating, considering some of the things shown in the movie.

[USER=25043]@Wilycub[/USER] you are definitely correct about them being 70's figures. In fact the tooling and engineering of some of the figures and the horse were re-used from an older Kenner toyline from the movie of the same name ''Butch and the Sundance: The Early Days''.

I was actually doing some research and according to Tomart's Encyclopaedia of Action Figures (highly recommended reading ;) ) another big factor was the fact that the first series of four character figures were under produced so upon initial release even after almost a year of the movie it was extremely hard finding the toys. Also Indy was only packed 2-3 per case whilst Marion was only 1 per case making her the rarest of the standard release figures.
According the book the secondary characters could still be found in some shops 10 years after the original release.

I know what you mean about the PG rating. There is indeed some pretty gruesome scenes. But then again they made Commando and Terminator toys!

But if you want a real surprise for drab action figures with little to no appeal to children...they made toys of M*A*S*H and The Love Boat!

It's a shame George and Steven didn't do the marketing tactic of other movies and make a cartoon based on Indiana. Maybe set in the present day with some real over the top colourful characters and various adventure gear and accessories something like Rambo, Robocop etc.

There was the live action series "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles" in the early 1990s, with Sean Patrick Flannery as young Indy. George Hall played the modern-day Indy telling someone he bumped into about such-and-such an adventure he'd had. Although one of them featured Harrison Ford in that role in the 40s I guess.

"LiamABC, post: 126032, member: 25438" said:

There was the live action series "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles" in the early 1990s, with Sean Patrick Flannery as young Indy. George Hall played the modern-day Indy telling someone he bumped into about such-and-such an adventure he'd had. Although one of them featured Harrison Ford in that role in the 40s I guess.

I recall I used to enjoy watching that series on a Saturday. Haven't seen it since it was originally shown here in the UK.

I only saw about eight or nine of them. I don't think they were shown in sequence, and I distinctly remember that I didn't see any of the ones where he was literally just a kid.

I remember I was very young when I heard about "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles". At that time I thought that the series would star Harrison Ford (give me a break I was barely 10! LOL!) ;) So I watched one episode and was disappointed when I realized that Ford wasn't in it. I never watched any other episodes after that.

"Mark M, post: 126030, member: 5058" said:

I know what you mean about the PG rating. There is indeed some pretty gruesome scenes. But then again they made Commando and Terminator toys!

Hahaha! :laugh That's very true! I don't recall if they ever made toys based on the first Terminator, but I definitely owned a few from T2. I guess T2 was a little bit more kid friendly. But many of the toys had very little to do with the actual movie. The Terminator figures were dressed in strange clothes and had some bizarre weapons. There even was a Terminator Car and Motorcycle (not the one from the movie but a totally different cyborg-like bike).

"Mark M, post: 126030, member: 5058" said:

It's a shame George and Steven didn't do the marketing tactic of other movies and make a cartoon based on Indiana. Maybe set in the present day with some real over the top colourful characters and various adventure gear and accessories something like Rambo, Robocop etc.

Absolutely! That would have really helped sell more merchandise. I mean they did do a cartoon version of "Rambo" and were thus able to make quite a few figures and vehicles. Even a short animated Indiana Jones series could have helped toy sales immensely.