Gay Marriage

Manny, I wasn't trying to make you look like the bad guy, hun. But sweetie, you can't let things get to you so quickly. Trust me, that got me into trouble too many times. Really, I'm looking out for you.

I know you are a nice guy.

I'll tell you what....I know you are an Army guy.... I can sketch... How about a nice pin up of Cheetara in fatigues... ya know, the hat, the bdu top tied up in a knot and the shorts in camo. Just to let you know things are cool.

How about that? Don't worry, I'll make sure it's tastefully done.

"MannysCollectibles, post: 20686" said:

Jeez all I said was that Im glad people are discussing this in a respectful manner. I offered no personal with my most recent post and...

FYI I have posted on this thread twice with my personal opinion with my most recent post simply stating that its great people havent started flaming wars or stepping on each other's personal opinion. I for one could care less if people are nice to me on the boards, I dont bring upon myself for people to be upset or whatever. I dont understand why I am suddenly viewed like the bad guy here when I just simply stated that its good to see people respect each other's opinion on this topic. Beats the hell out me really why someone would quote me with an off the wall reply as was said above.

Quoting in that post was misused, as the reply at hand had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with what I said. I rest my case

The point of my post is that a statement does not cease being disrespectful, because one phrased it politely, e.g. the posts of Lord of the Thundercats.

I think the main thing that fuels the debates about gay marriage is fear. Really fear is behind a whole lot of the evil things that have happened, is happening, will happen in the future but that's another thread....

I think the main reason why people are afraid of gay marriage is that the first images that pop into their minds of well...gay..people is that they are all like "The Village People" or the flamboyant "Pride" parade goers.

Not that I'm saying that its wrong for men with very hairy legs to walk up Christopher Street with white wedding dresses on...I'm just saying...

I think that people are fearful that a family with two people of the same sex are going to be raising their children in a environment of flamboyance and behindless chaps and that they will make a mentally mis-aligned child with their upbringing being the cause of it.

Since there is such homophobia in the world not many people have had an opportunity to actually speak to or get to know someone who prefers a same sex partner as opposed to an opposite sex partner. Instead of people becoming educated and the same circle of wrong stereotypes and cruel treatment continues in the form of ostracism and sometimes outright violence perpetuates.

Add religion to the mix where the ostracism and violence is in some doctrines is excused with an averted glance and tolerated in other doctrines where it is not only venerated but encouraged and you have a recipe for more mis-understanding and even more hate.


If people could get the stereotypical image of what it is to be "gay" out of their heads and realize that couples are couples (that argue over foolish things, buy groceries, drive a mini-van) and that gender doesn't even enter the equasion we'd be able to pave the way for even more progress.

Like developing a hot dog that microwaves itself just like on Futurama.
Merged Post:
I think the main thing that fuels the debates about gay marriage is fear. Really fear is behind a whole lot of the evil things that have happened, is happening, will happen in the future but that's another thread....

I think the main reason why people are afraid of gay marriage is that the first images that pop into their minds of well...gay..people is that they are all like "The Village People" or the flamboyant "Pride" parade goers.

Not that I'm saying that its wrong for men with very hairy legs to walk up Christopher Street with white wedding dresses on...I'm just saying...

I think that people are fearful that a family with two people of the same sex are going to be raising their children in a environment of flamboyance and behindless chaps and that they will make a mentally mis-aligned child with their upbringing being the cause of it.

Since there is such homophobia in the world not many people have had an opportunity to actually speak to or get to know someone who prefers a same sex partner as opposed to an opposite sex partner. Instead of people becoming educated and the same circle of wrong stereotypes and cruel treatment continues in the form of ostracism and sometimes outright violence perpetuates.

Add religion to the mix where the ostracism and violence is in some doctrines is excused with an averted glance and tolerated in other doctrines where it is not only venerated but encouraged and you have a recipe for more mis-understanding and even more hate.


If people could get the stereotypical image of what it is to be "gay" out of their heads and realize that couples are couples (that argue over foolish things, buy groceries, drive a mini-van) and that gender doesn't even enter the equasion we'd be able to pave the way for even more progress!

Like developing a hot dog that microwaves itself just like on Futurama.

I'm relatively new here, but as an openly gay man I feel the desire to weigh in on this discussion.


As far as gay-marriage is concerned, I must echo many other's who have said the same thing.... Why should it matter to anyone else what 2 people who love eachother do? My partner and I have been together for 8 years.... It would be nice if we could make our relationship official, but more than that it would be great if I could truly feel like I have the same rights and priviledges as other American citizens.

On the topic of children... One thing I see a lot of panic over is exposing children to homosexuality.

Here's my little story... I'm the oldest of 8 children, with a 6 year gap between me and the next one. I came out when I was 14, about 18 years ago, while most of my siblings were still in diapers.

They grew up in a single-mother home with a gay older brother. They saw me being affectionate with my boyfriends (The oldest one loved to interrupt my make-out sessions - Typical little brother!). They were very much aware of the fact that I was gay, I made no effort to hide it.

Still, they all turned out straight, they all turned out normal, and they all turned out to be knowledgeable and accepting of homosexuality - even my sister the minister. In my experience, exposing children to homosexuality early on did nothing but allow them to grow up in an environment where they saw it as a normal and accpeted thing.

I think of it this way... Even the most religious, anti-gay people out there could potentially end up with a gay child - happens all the time. By teaching that child to hate themselves for what they are, they are doing far more emotional damage than a gay person raising a child is doing.

OK I'm gonna risk a post here...though I'm gonna tread carefully! lol.
Right then, the topic in question: Yeah gay/lesbain marriage should be allowed, I have personally been a witness for a lesbian civil service and regarding the debate between the difference between 'marriage' and 'civil partnership' I reckon that if a couple can get a religious person (i.e priest or whatever for their religion) to perform the act of marriage for them then BHAM! happy days! If thats all a couple can get is a civil service and they really want a marriage then I do feel for them....but IMO I think it should be ok.

NOW this is where i it gets messy...*starts treading lightly*:
With regard to children I believe that a single parent can do a fantastic job of raising a child, in fact being raised by a single mum myself I wouldn't have changed my upbringing for the world!! I DO believe a gay/lesbian couple can raise a child successfully, and I DON'T think that child is necessarily destined to be homosexual themselves HOWEVER....I am of the personal opinion that homosexual couples should not have their own genetic babies....i.e a gay couple getting a surrogate mum, or lesbians using doner sperm etc.
These are my reasonings for the above:

• There are too many children out there in orphanages and short term foster homes who should be taken care of 1st IMO
• There is no 'natural' way for a homosexual couple to have children and therefore I think this kinda goes against nature in that sense (from a scientific point of view)
• If a 3rd person is used for the conception, then the child MAY suffer emotional issues later on in life having a biological mother or father they never knew
• With regard to my 2nd point I take this stance on any couple that cannot conceive naturally (not just homosexual couples) and although I appreciate it can be very emotionally painful not to be able to have children of you own, my scientific logic prevails in my own head somewhat.

SO thats my two cents on it....as pointless as it may be saying this to certain people, PLEASE don't take personal offense, after all these r just the opinions of a non-religious scientist who despite being quite sensitive at heart, can use cold logic for some things.
Much Love x

"matt, post: 11811" said:

I think that telling people what to do (ie. who they can marry) is unconstitional.

Tell that to Obama in regards to his health care plan and making it law that every American is "required" to purchase health care under his new law. So, so, so unconstitutional. :sneaky:

"blackiecats, post: 11976" said:

Exactly. If your not religious then your being hypercritical and you obviously do not respect the religion. All faiths agree on one thing, marriage is between a man and a women. Simple as that.

Things change. Religions change. People evolve. I don't think it is being hypocritical for people to want gay marriage to be allowed. Not every faith believes that marriage is between a man and a woman anymore. There are Christian churches that perform gay marriage today, as well as churches of other faiths.

Wow, I think this is perhaps the most civil conversation on this topic i have ever seen / heard.
My view....it's a word. I've been married twice the first time was in Tattoo parlor by an ordained Minister, we wore leather and denim. The song white wedding by Billy Idol replaced the wedding march. The second, was under a beautiful old oak tree at a farm in Wisconsin where I went down the aisle to the imperial march and the bride came to me to a lovely celtic tune with pipes. The ceremony was presided over by my wife's transgender cousin as we had been officially married at court a week prior.
Now, why am I telling you this? My first marriage was a marriage, despite the surroundings, because an ordained Minister performed the nuptials. My second wedding should be referred to as a civil union since it was performed by a civil servant, a Judge.
The point, leave it at this. If an ordained member of any faith will perform a "Marriage" of a same sex couple, honor it by calling it as such. Conversely, if a man and woman stand before a judge, that should be called a civil union.

All of that being said, I don't believe that the LGBT community should be marching yelling for the right to be married. Let the legislation be passed for laws and rights to be accorded to them based on the level of commitment shown by the couple. But the Government has no right to demand a church of any kind allow same sex marriage. They don't belong in our homes, let alone our bed rooms.

"C.L.A.W., post: 101919, member: 25865" said:

All of that being said, I don't believe that the LGBT community should be marching yelling for the right to be married. Let the legislation be passed for laws and rights to be accorded to them based on the level of commitment shown by the couple. But the Government has no right to demand a church of any kind allow same sex marriage. They don't belong in our homes, let alone our bed rooms.

Unfortunately, if not for people activists making a huge fuss, much of the legislature would be perfectly happy to leave this touchy topic alone, as it had been for many years.

When it comes to religion and homosexuality, I think it is very sad that some religious extremists who use the bible to justify their homophobia have basically hijacked Christianity. People are correct when they say that much of Christianity is anti-gay, but they are also correct in pointing out the "cherry picking" that goes on in advocating against homosexuality.

The truth is that there are many gays and lesbians who are Christian as well as many pro-LGBT people who are Christian. However, it seems those people are often discounted and people continue to see Christianity as simply anti-gay (which is understandable, I suppose).

Overall, I am all for recognizing individuality and attempting not to put everyone in the same box. A lot of anti-gay Christians seem to be of the opinion that no one in or supporting the gay community can be Christian. And thats so wrong because...who is anyone else to determine who a "true" Christian is? The same could be said of any faith.

This may be steering the discussion off topic, but another fascinating trend I see is that now, FINALLY, gay marriage has become the law of the land as (IMO) it always should have been. And in the short time that this has become law, some fundamentalist Christians are now wanting to cry out that they are being the victim of discrimination. This is such a ridiculous argument to me, and I include such silly notions as the "war on Christmas" etc. What really is happening is a cultural shift, and the shift is basically stating that fundamentalist Christianity is no longer the default standard by which all of us should have to live our lives. I feel like so many fundamental Christians are so use to their beliefs being "at the top" (including their beliefs on gay marriage) that they just can't handle being put on the same level as everyone else. As such, they opt to play the victim. I find that sad and rather delusional. Case in point - the current situation involving Kim Davis, the county clerk in Kentucky who refused to issue marriage licenses. She expects to be able to have her personal beliefs dictate what parts of her job she is going to do. When this is unacceptable, people cry "discrimination!" when really, she is free to do and believe whatever she wants. But she also has to do the job she is there to do. If she can't do it, just like a Muslim probably couldn't work in a butcher shop that handles pork, she should move on from said job. Simple as that.