Gay Marriage

I think love is a rare and beautiful thing and that it deosn't matter what form it takes as long as its there.


As far as marriage goes, I say let 'em get married so they can be miserable like the rest of us!

:cheetaraveryhappy::pumyraveryhappy: :evil:

I am however, against two lesbian woman or two gay men raising a child. This is wrong, and I believe will have severe consequences on the child later on in life. If two people of the same sex wish to be together, so be it, but placing a child in that atmosphere and pretty much forcing them to accept it as right is wrong.

Hm, I hate to admit it, but your right here. I think that a child needs a proper father and a proper mother - two totally seperate things. Two mothers or two fathers sounds insane. I'm totally for gay marriage and people being free to choose who they have sex with and such and believe that the only reason why people look down upon it is religion and ignorance, a major part of the criticism. It's not harming anyone and it's their choice - so let them. But bringing up a child in a strange enviroment like that? I don't agree with that.

"nickmills, post: 19495" said:

Hm, I hate to admit it, but your right here. I think that a child needs a proper father and a proper mother - two totally seperate things. Two mothers or two fathers sounds insane. I'm totally for gay marriage and people being free to choose who they have sex with and such and believe that the only reason why people look down upon it is religion and ignorance, a major part of the criticism. It's not harming anyone and it's their choice - so let them. But bringing up a child in a strange enviroment like that? I don't agree with that.

And what would be better? A child raised by an abusive father and a mother who is a punching bag like what happened to me and my ex husband? What about single parents? Is a single mother bad because she doesn't have a husband to help raise the child or a single father that doesn't have a wife?

I got an idea, take away all children from single parents because they don't have the opposite sex partner to help raise the child and take away children from gay and lesbian parents who also don't have the opposite sex partner since neither one is an ideal environment. Forget the circumstances involved, only allow two people of opposite sex with a wonderful life have kids.

"nickmills, post: 19495" said:

Two mothers or two fathers sounds insane [...] the only reason why people look down upon it is religion and ignorance, a major part of the criticism. It's not harming anyone and it's their choice - so let them. [...] But bringing up a child in a strange enviroment like that? I don't agree with that.

Not to pick on you here, but "sounds insane" and "strange environment" isn't especially far from "looking down upon it" due to "ignorance". Yes, its not the typical pattern, but that doesn't make a lesbian or gay male couple any less suited to parenting. To make a slightly sappy comment, the most important thing a parent can provide is love, not what they've got between their legs.

The single parent example is a good one: if you don't agree with gay couples raising a child due to the parents both being of the same sex, then if you're being consistent you'd also have issues with single parents.

And what would be better? A child raised by an abusive father and a mother who is a punching bag like what happened to me and my ex husband? What about single parents? Is a single mother bad because she doesn't have a husband to help raise the child or a single father that doesn't have a wife?

I got an idea, take away all children from single parents because they don't have the opposite sex partner to help raise the child and take away children from gay and lesbian parents who also don't have the opposite sex partner since neither one is an ideal environment. Forget the circumstances involved, only allow two people of opposite sex with a wonderful life have kids

I don't have issues with single parents. But I do think that, as someone said earlier in this post, that raising a child in a gay/lesbian relationship is basically forcing them into not only accepting the relationship but, as society is mean and cruel, forces them to face ridicule and so forth. Like I said, this is only my opinion and I'm sorry it seems like you've taken it so personally (which was not my intention). But the way the world is, forcing a child into that situation is unfair.

I also apologise for some of my wording - just trying to grasp what I was getting at. I guess I'm on the fence, about it, and I understand both of your points.

"Originalthundercatroar, post: 19187" said:

I think love is a rare and beautiful thing and that it deosn't matter what form it takes as long as its there.


As far as marriage goes, I say let 'em get married so they can be miserable like the rest of us!

:cheetaraveryhappy::pumyraveryhappy: :evil:

Amen!!! :evil:

but it should not be a "strange enviroment" for a gay couple to have a kid. Hell as long as the kid has two loving parents who really cares? And as far as single parents i think that they have it alot harder than married ones on the grounds that they are both the mother and father and the sole income provider. Thats alot for anyone shoulders. And how can any loving enviroment be "strange" its socitey that teaches that gay and lesbians are strange. If people would drop all the "the bible says its wrong" or "gay sex is sick and etc" B.S. crap and take people as they are that are commiting no crime other than love. Is love a crime now? Might be with a republican in office we might want to check that on.....:duh:

"nickmills, post: 19500" said:

I don't have issues with single parents. But I do think that, as someone said earlier in this post, that raising a child in a gay/lesbian relationship is basically forcing them into not only accepting the relationship but, as society is mean and cruel, forces them to face ridicule and so forth. Like I said, this is only my opinion and I'm sorry it seems like you've taken it so personally (which was not my intention). But the way the world is, forcing a child into that situation is unfair.

I also apologise for some of my wording - just trying to grasp what I was getting at. I guess I'm on the fence, about it, and I understand both of your points.

By that reasoning, interracial couples should not raise children, because raising a child in an interracial relationship is "basically forcing them into not only accepting the relationship but, as society is mean and cruel, forces them to face ridicule and so forth," i.e. "forcing a child into that situation is unfair."

Hmm. You may be right. I guess that a same-sex couple can raise a child - to be fair, they have that right. Who's to stop gays from getting married, raising children etc? If we are to be a fair society, gay's and lesbians must receive the same rights that straight couples are allowed. Tis only right.

It's always going to be two opposing views

All of this always boils down to religion so this just can’t be left out of the whole issue. The fact is that for a religious person homosexuality is just wrong, there's no way around it. Let me give you an idea of how a religious person sees the whole issue. Religious (Christian in this case) people are concerned about salvation, i.e. going to heaven. If you do not repent but keep on sinning you will not go to heaven; instead you will go to hell. To make it simple, no religious person would encourage doing wrong against God and hence condemning oneself. Instead religious people want to see as many others as possible saved, which means they are not going to encourage immoral behavior. Here are two sections from the bible to support my main points, which are 1. Homosexuality is wrong, 2. Homosexual behavior will not get you to heaven.

The Old Testament shows the first point in Leviticus 18:22 (NIV) "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman: that is detestable". The second point is clearly shown in the New Testament in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NIV) "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (Numbers 10 and 11 in the text just refer to where the verse changes). That basically deduces the fact that you can’t be gay and Christian at the same time.

As for this statement:

"AlexofThundera, post: 18563" said:

My motto is: You only get one shot at this life, you might as well do whatever is that makes you happy so long as it does not hurt others.

It’s a very close quote from the Satanic Bible’s Book of Lucifer Essay VIII. I’m not saying alexofthundera is a Satanist so no offense intended, just saying who else thinks that way and why a Christian can't accept that point of view. Personally I’m a Christian, and I’ve seen and heard enough in my life to make 100% sure God exists so I’m not going to encourage others to live a life without God. In short what I’m trying to say is that arguing equal rights, civil unions or marriage with a Christian is already a moot subject since they don’t believe people should practice homosexual behavior in the first place. However if you don’t believe in Christianity then I’d say you are not doing anything wrong, which is the case for Atheists and Satanists. So the question then remains should gay marriage be denied based on Christian values or accepted based on atheistic and satanic values. If you think about it this way the Government will have to align itself according to some religious view even though we have a separation of Church and State.

That is not true for all Christians: take Quakers, for example. Granted, its possibly the most tolerant denomination of Christianity, but I know several gay Quakers, some of whom have a civil partnership together. Not every Christian takes the Bible without a pinch of salt, especially the Old Testament.

Of course, I'm an atheist, so I tend to equate the "homosexuality is wrong" statement as equivalent to "having blue eyes is wrong": both equally ridiculous. But as per the above, its not just atheists who feel dogmatically enshrined homophobia is horribly outdated. ;)

I don't personally know any Quakers so I can't speak for them but I agree that some Christians are more tolerant than others. In Finland for example the Lutheran Church which is the State Church accepts homosexuality, however gays can't get married in Church, (yet). I'm guessing it's just a matter of time before they start allowing it over there. Otherwise though it is considered a marriage over there with all the same rights, priviledges etc as any other married couple. As far as the Old Testament goes some of the teachings basically did become obsolete with the New Testament since a new covenant was formed however some of the teachings are the same in both Testaments such as the issue of homosexuality. Personally I don't think you can pick and choose from the Bible what to believe in and what not but I do agree to the pinch of salt for the Old Testament :).

And i have seen enough in my life to know that 100 percent that god does not exist. I have been to many churches and even went to a christian school for 4 years. So i think that i'm valid in my point of view.

Atheistic and satanic values have nothing to do with people wanting to spend the rest of their lives with each other. Love is love is it not? So are you saying that all those dogs and other animals that are homosexual which happens a lot in nature. they aren't going to go to your little doggie heaven? i don't mean to sound harsh but your good book teaches hate and not love. Whatever happened to love thy neighbor etc.

i'm not telling anyone not to read the bible its a great fairy tale it really is. Yes it has moral of the story time just like grimms fables. Take it read it be a decent person blah blah blah but don't let it cloud your mind from whats right and wrong. Denying someone basic human rights is wrong.

I've seen plenty of churches myself where I believe God's presence is not there, and that's sad to see. However God blesses those who are faithful, the key thing being that you must have faith in God. Just because you went to a Christian school doesn't make you a Christian and that God will richly bless your life.

In my opinion many of the Christian right wing politicians and lobbyists aren't true believers based on the way they act. I really can understand why you would think it's more based on hate than on love, and people like that give Christians a bad name. But do show me one section in the bible that urges us to hate each other. Many politicians just grab the Bible as some kind of "ultimate tool" to gain support but really don't have any real knowledge of what the Bible teaches.
With regards to pets there's no section in the bible that states whether or not pets goto heaven but the main belief is that since pets aren't intelligent in the sense that they can't accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior they will not go to heaven. So this would also exclude heterosexual doggies. Again the bible doesn't talk about God's plan for pets and heaven so I'll just leave it at that.

As far as love goes, I don't know if you can say love is love, since for some people that means pedophilia and bestiality, which they argue with the same passion. This is a reason why values do have something to do with love, and any society in the world is based on some set of values. You have to remember though that God loves all human beings but he doesn't condone sinful behavior. This basically means that God does love a gay person but he doesn't want that person to commit "gay acts". Just the same as God loves thieves but he doesn't want them to steal. God never hates a person it's the sins we commit that he hates.

I'm not poop pooing anyone's beliefs about religion I respect everyone's beliefs as long as they don't bother me with it and I'm not targeting any poster in here about this topic when I say this..........

Whenever the homosexual topic comes up......... especially by people who tote handmade signs screamin' on street corners.........they attatch passages from Leviticus.

Has anyone ever read all of Leviticus and what all the rules are in that particular part of the bible?

Before anyone gets upset with me....please just read it and some of the off the wall stuff that is in there.

Everything I believe about religion now I get from the movie Dogma. If everyone just had an idea we'd all be so much better off.

I think one thing that I find it kind of comforting is that everyone here has discussed these touchy subjects in a very respectful manner

"MannysCollectibles, post: 20647" said:

I think one thing that I find it kind of comforting is that everyone here has discussed these touchy subjects in a very respectful manner

There is nothing respectful about comparing the expression of love between two consenting adults to thievery, child molestation, and sex with animals.

"Mumm-Ra_The Ever-Living, post: 20665" said:

There is nothing respectful about comparing the expression of love between two consenting adults to thievery, child molestation, and sex with animals.

I didnt mean that but rather than people who have posted on this thread have respected people's opinion on the matter. Sometimes people tend to step over each other's toes with this.

As far as you quoting me, please read and study my post and think about before coming down to conclusions

Okay, I'm going to carefully word this reply to make sure it doesn't look like I'm taking anyone's side but unfortunately, it's going to look that way.

This topic is a controversial one. Yes it's nice that most of the time, everyone is being respectful to everyone else's posts. Sure nobody is going to agree with everyone here and that is to be expected. You have to expect with such a controversial topic people are going to disagree with you, even misunderstand you or worse of all...you not hearing what you like or want to hear.

*queen lynxana is going to bite the bullet now

MannysCollectibles....please don't take what I am about to say next the wrong way, but I know you will... I know you are used to everyone here at TCL agreeing with you, being nice to you or whatever, but I have noticed when someone disagrees with you or says something you don't like, you come down on them. Personally I don't think Mumm-Ra_The_Ever-Living said anything wrong. You posted in a controversial topic and you left yourself wide open, infact anyone leaves themselves wide open when posting here. If you don't want anyone to quote you here in this thread, then don't post or put a "please don't quote what I say etc....."

And yes, I have read, studied and gave a lot of thought to your last post before writing this.

Jeez all I said was that Im glad people are discussing this in a respectful manner. I offered no personal with my most recent post and...

FYI I have posted on this thread twice with my personal opinion with my most recent post simply stating that its great people havent started flaming wars or stepping on each other's personal opinion. I for one could care less if people are nice to me on the boards, I dont bring upon myself for people to be upset or whatever. I dont understand why I am suddenly viewed like the bad guy here when I just simply stated that its good to see people respect each other's opinion on this topic. Beats the hell out me really why someone would quote me with an off the wall reply as was said above.

Quoting in that post was misused, as the reply at hand had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with what I said. I rest my case