Would Silverhawks have made for a better series revamp than 2011 TCATS?

Okay, I know this may sound more negative than it actually is, but just hear me out. I was crazy excited about the 2011 series, but even shortly after the announcement the show would go into production, I had my doubts. Why? Simply because the original 1985 series was such a complex beast made to look deceptively easy.

There was a layering of many components that made that series work then & why it remains so memorable today. From the signature character designs, to the brilliant voice cast, Bernard Hoffer's indelible score, and the writers who seamlessly blended elements of Fantasy & Sci-Fi together. That series left its mark on a generation (actually two generations if you count those that were discovering it for the first time on Cartoon Network). It was like lightening in a bottle & though I wished all who were working on the 2011 series the best of luck--I really did want it to work---I knew in the back of my mind, despite voice acting cameos & nods to other characters in that universe (etc), rekindling something as monumental as that '85 series would be a ridiculously tall order.

Now, here's where the title of this post comes in. Silverhawks, God bless 'em. I love 'em....well, more so the concept of the series & the character designs of the main heroes & Mon-Star. Truth be told, although I watched Silverhawks from time to time in the 80's, I had totally forgotten about them by the time I was a teenager. A large part of that could be because it only ran for one season, but frankly none of the episodes were particularly memorable. The only thing that happened to ring that bell in the far recesses of my mind would be that amazing theme song & opening sequence which I would later rediscover when Thundercats started to air on Toonami. By researching more information on that series, I ran across a RealPlayer clip (ooh, remember those?) of the intro.

Anyway, even though today I own both volumes of Silverhawks on dvd, the plots of most of the episodes are still just as forgettable as they were back in the day. With no disrespect intended to any who worked on the series, the basic "cops & robbers in space" shtick gets pretty old fast & many of the characters are very one dimensional; lacking the depth & complexity Thundercats had given us. They tell us briefly, but who really were these people before they just voluntarily signed up to become "partly metal, partly real?" The lack of a true backstory & some other nuggets that would've made the series more engaging leads me to believe that because it lacked those elements that made Thundercats stick to our subconscious, it would've been a better fit for a revamp BEFORE they attempted to revive Thundercats.

With Silverhawks, it's almost like they had a blank slate to work with. They could have easily retooled large portions of it & no one would've really noticed or cared because it would've been that much of an improvement. With Thundercats, there were so many ideas, characters, & stories that are cemented in that logo that any attempt to alter its history was playing with fire.--And yes, I am well aware that the 2011 series was a big success & still has its loyal fans, but we know it has its share of critics as well.

So, with all that said, do you agree or disagree with my argument that a revamped Silverhawks would have been a safer bet before attempting to touch the minefield that is Thundercats? Sound off below.

Actually, "SilverHawks" lasted for only *one* season, totalling 65 episodes. I believe a reboot of the show would be possible, but the characters and storyline would have to be treated with a little more respect.

"Daremonger, post: 98223" said:

Actually, "SilverHawks" lasted for only *one* season, totalling 65 episodes. I believe a reboot of the show would be possible, but the characters and storyline would have to be treated with a little more respect.

See, it was so forgettable I lost track of how many seasons there were. Thanks. :thumbsup:

You're welcome. :)

Interesting post BloodofKings. I only seen Silverhawks for the first time a couple months back and I was not impressed. The only thing good I could say about it is that some of the bad guys were kind of cool. I thought the heroes were really bland character wise.
Looking at t now it reminds me of an unsuccessful mix up of C.O.P.S. or Galaxy Rangers meets Gatchaman/ Battle of the Planets.

As much as I was not a big fan of the 2011 Thundercats series, mostly due to it lacking everything that made the 80's series great, if they were to do a revamp of Silverhawks I think it would need a lot of drastic changes.

Mostly a better villain, better characterization for the heroes and a more thought out plot for the series.

A general theory that has some merit is; if something was lackluster the first time a second stab at it can have beautiful results (street fighter vs street fighter 2). Owning to the fact that there are limited loyalties it can betray, few people are going to find changes detrimental. It would give a good jumping off point for a master storyteller to really shine AND make something good based off their own skill.

However people wouldn't want to see it based on the merit of the old show. Can't ride the popularity of something that wasn't quite popular. It might even have the unfortunate effect of NO ONE wanting to see it if they thought the original dull.

Such is the conundrum of a show in this position and why studios generally don't bet on that horse.

"NuudoruNoMasho, post: 98289" said:

A general theory that has some merit is; if something was lackluster the first time a second stab at it can have beautiful results (street fighter vs street fighter 2). Owning to the fact that there are limited loyalties it can betray, few people are going to find changes detrimental. It would give a good jumping off point for a master storyteller to really shine AND make something good based off their own skill.

However people wouldn't want to see it based on the merit of the old show. Can't ride the popularity of something that wasn't quite popular. It might even have the unfortunate effect of NO ONE wanting to see it if they thought the original dull.

Such is the conundrum of a show in this position and why studios generally don't bet on that horse.

The problem in a nutshell. I agree entirely that it makes more artistic sense to remake something that didn't take off the first time round. There's no ideology to shatter.

But of course it's difficult when hardly anybody's heard of the original. But there's a simple answer - don't mention the original at all, treat it like something brand new! (I don't mean say it's a completely new thing, people who know about the original will know anyway, just don't reference the original when talking about it.)

"NuudoruNoMasho, post: 98289" said:

A general theory that has some merit is; if something was lackluster the first time a second stab at it can have beautiful results (street fighter vs street fighter 2). Owning to the fact that there are limited loyalties it can betray, few people are going to find changes detrimental. It would give a good jumping off point for a master storyteller to really shine AND make something good based off their own skill.

However people wouldn't want to see it based on the merit of the old show. Can't ride the popularity of something that wasn't quite popular. It might even have the unfortunate effect of NO ONE wanting to see it if they thought the original dull.

Such is the conundrum of a show in this position and why studios generally don't bet on that horse.

I agree with you and Liam.

No, Silverhawks would not have made a better revamp, it might have been about as good, but not better. if I could pick 80's cartoons I would like to see a revamp for there are many I would prefer to Silverhawks. Such series would be She-Ra, Galaxy High, Thundarr the Barbarian, Dungeons and Dragons, Jem and the Holograms, Smurfs, Kidd Video, Galtar and the Golden Lance, Pole Position, Dinosaucers, Inhumanoids, Count Duckula, etc.

I loved the 80s SH.

Both "ThunderCats" and "SilverHawks" had different timelines, though they each had a Penal Planet to imprison galactic criminals in.

"Daremonger, post: 98345" said:

Both "ThunderCats" and "SilverHawks" had different timelines, though they each had a Penal Planet to imprison galactic criminals in.

Well, what can I say. Different timelines, but similar characters and plots, with Monstarr transforming and all that.

It's like "The Flintstones" and "The Jetsons" lol

It's difficult to say if it'd have made for a "better" revamp, but certainly there is a lot of potential for a show like Silverhawks. Unlike Thundercats, Silverhawks was strictly sci-fi, unless you count Mon*Star's transformation as a mythical aspect of the show. Thundercats has fantasy and sci-fi elements that need to achieve equilibrium to have a lasting impact, it's difficult to attain something like that and it was apparent with the new incarnation of the show. There were several aspects of the show which didn't sit well with me, for example the new Mumm-ra, being tech-savvy, riding sarcophagus-tank(?) was a deterrent from his better, darker mythical menace.

Silverhawks if revamped, would not need to deal with those elements on constant basis, maybe contingent upon story-arcs. I strongly believe Silverhawks would make for a terrific TV series if they remake it; sharing overall tone of Justice League (as an example). Of course I would want them to get rid of Copper Kid, planet of the mimes (seriously?!:rolleyes:), or alter his character to something more tolerable. There is so much there to be done with Silverhawks, just like there was potential with Thundercats with new show. The crossover nature hinted upon was simply a dream come true, I only wish future versions might tackle this again. Heck, since WB owns them, maybe they can do crossovers with their DC characters. Mon*Star being some long forgotten brother of Darkseid :eek:, joking :P.

In conclusion, Silverhawks would make for a slightly 'easier' show to do than Thundercats, but better? I think that solely depends on quality of writing and presentation.

It's always an interesting thought of what would work best if remade?

Looking at 80s cartoons in general, I think Spiral Zone would be an excellent candidate for a comeback. The dark premise was ahead of its time, the bad guy had a motive that you could empathise with - you wouldn't need to alter the premise of the show much if at all. It was more suited to today than the 80s, I've seen interviews with some of the voice actors where they say as much. Of course, not being a very successful show the first time round, the studio people aren't likely to consider it. But it would probably do very well.

In the case of the Thundercats 2011 series it should have been an easy revamp...but instead they lost everything that made the 80's series so loved by fans and had a pretty inconsistent writing and production team working on it. Personally it seemed they more interested in trying to use Thundercats as a vehicle to make a show like Avatar but failed miserably at.
As much as I disliked the Silverhaks cartoon I realise it would still have to hold onto the things it's fans loved otherwise it would not be Silverhawks.
I can't say it would be easier to reboot Silverhawks, it just depends on who is working on it.

You've to look at what you're working with. One, Silverhawks has a relatively small fan base, hardcore fans probably even less amongst them. So they would not need to be too strict with what they have to do. Second, Silverhawks doesn't have as many elements to balance as Thundercats, that is what I meant by easy. Therefore, Silverhawks are an easy project to tackle.

Clearly they had issues with the new Thundercats, that fantastical aspect to them was lost with the new show. It can be said that the old show was all in all childish, that's why all sorts of things worked because that's how it was made. Revamping it with a serious tone is harder when you've to balance all these elements in order to sell it. Even with the original show, one thing that stood out like an oddity was character of Mumm-Ra, but it worked with the tone and nature of the series. In new one, he stood out even more and few things just didn't seem right like the ones I mentioned already.

Silverhawks on the other hand present a simpler collection of characters that you can easily approach and give them a new revamped story. You got cyborgs stationed in space to police the new frontier against criminal organizations. That's why I used the example of Justice League, though Silverhawks present relatively simpler case even with regards to DC's show. Thematically they are more simpler. We already have a great setup with Silverhawks, it's the future and Earth needs a team of special forces in space to be their first line of defense against alien criminals. There's lot more freedom with this property I would say.

"Wolf873, post: 98365" said:

You've to look at what you're working with. One, Silverhawks has a relatively small fan base, hardcore fans probably even less amongst them. So they would not need to be too strict with what they have to do. Second, Silverhawks doesn't have as many elements to balance as Thundercats, that is what I meant by easy. Therefore, Silverhawks are an easy project to tackle.

Clearly they had issues with the new Thundercats, that fantastical aspect to them was lost with the new show. It can be said that the old show was all in all childish, that's why all sorts of things worked because that's how it was made. Revamping it with a serious tone is harder when you've to balance all these elements in order to sell it. Even with the original show, one thing that stood out like an oddity was character of Mumm-Ra, but it worked with the tone and nature of the series. In new one, he stood out even more and few things just didn't seem right like the ones I mentioned already.

Silverhawks on the other hand present a simpler collection of characters that you can easily approach and give them a new revamped story. You got cyborgs stationed in space to police the new frontier against criminal organizations. That's why I used the example of Justice League, though Silverhawks present relatively simpler case even with regards to DC's show. Thematically they are more simpler. We already have a great setup with Silverhawks, it's the future and Earth needs a team of special forces in space to be their first line of defense against alien criminals. There's lot more freedom with this property I would say.

My point exactly.