ThunderCats Rewatch Episode 5-6 Discussion

"adssse, post: 115323, member: 25051" said:

Yup, sounds right to me. I liked the explanation as it gave some further character to Grune's barbaric nature.

Grune was one of the best characters in the 2011 series. It really showed a lot to his and Panthro's character. Being a skilled warrior in combat is one thing but it really showed what Grune and Panthro were both willing to do to achieve victory over their enemy.

"Mark M, post: 115331, member: 5058" said:

Grune was one of the best characters in the 2011 series. It really showed a lot to his and Panthro's character. Being a skilled warrior in combat is one thing but it really showed what Grune and Panthro were both willing to do to achieve victory over their enemy.

Completely agree. I think they actually did a nice job on those two characters although they made Panthro a bit silly as the episodes went on. Overall two of my favorites!

"adssse, post: 115337, member: 25051" said:

Completely agree. I think they actually did a nice job on those two characters although they made Panthro a bit silly as the episodes went on. Overall two of my favorites!

Yes I completely agree. Once Panthro lost his arms and got the robotic replacements he became more comic relief. It's a pity they killed Grune off half way through the series as that would have made for a far better series finale. But considering how awful the pacing of the season was it doesn't surprise me.

"Mark M, post: 115341, member: 5058" said:

Yes I completely agree. Once Panthro lost his arms and got the robotic replacements he became more comic relief.

I was just pondering about this, and was it really necessary to amputate both of Panthro's arms? I know how it happens in the story with the portal and all that. But I was talking from a writer's point of view. Getting rid of both arms seemed a bit "extreme" to me.

In movies or cartoons, we've often seen lead characters losing just one limb (Luke in ESB, Aquaman in JL, Hiccup in HTTYD, Winter Soldier in CA:TWS). Usually the loss of one limb is enough to illustrate the character's sacrifice and also evoke the audience's sympathy. Would it have been better if Panthro was written to lose just one arm? Or do you prefer the way it was done in the cartoon?

"Wilycub, post: 115370, member: 25043" said:

I was just pondering about this, and was it really necessary to amputate both of Panthro's arms? I know how it happens in the story with the portal and all that. But I was talking from a writer's point of view. Getting rid of both arms seemed a bit "extreme" to me.

In movies or cartoons, we've often seen lead characters losing just one limb (Luke in ESB, Aquaman in JL, Hiccup in HTTYD, Winter Soldier in CA:TWS). Usually the loss of one limb is enough to illustrate the character's sacrifice and also evoke the audience's sympathy. Would it have been better if Panthro was written to lose just one arm? Or do you prefer the way it was done in the cartoon?

I get what you are saying and there are many characters with very cool designs with one robotic limb etc.
I think one of the main reasons he lost both arms was a design decision. As we seen the more his arms were robotic it was more played on their ability to stretch etc. Which was a lot like the lead character from the One Piece anime. The 2011 series tried to incorporate a lot of things from other movies and animes and this is no exception.
I do however think it demonstrated how much Panthro was willing to give up to defeat Grune, but I don't think the reasoning for it was worthwhile considering all they did with Panthro after losing them.
They should have maybe just had him lose just one if they had a better design idea for him. If I were designing a replacement arm for Panthro, rather than stretchy gloves, I would have went for something a bit more like Mondo's arm from Biker Mice From Mars. :D Panthro is a warrior and he should have something armoured, and vicious looking with weapons like built in laser cannons, rockets or a place to store his nunchucks.

There is a seen in a later episode where he and Cheetara try and teach Kit and Kat about survival and how they should kill when they have to yet there is a scene where Panthro and the others are in the tank with Ssslithe, Adicus and Kaynar out numbered, outgunned and outmatched and instead of killing them there and then they lot them go.

Btw what is HTTYD?

You make a good point, Mark. Because of all these one-limbed heroes that we all have been exposed to over the years, having one bionic limb looks cool. But having both arms replaced? Hmmmm... I'm not quite sure if kids would warm up to that just as easily. Of course I could be wrong.

"Mark M, post: 115371, member: 5058" said:

Btw what is HTTYD?

Sorry, it's "How To Train Your Dragon". :)

"Wilycub, post: 115373, member: 25043" said:

You make a good point, Mark. Because of all these one-limbed heroes that we all have been exposed to over the years, having one bionic limb looks cool. But having both arms replaced? Hmmmm... I'm not quite sure if kids would warm up to that just as easily. Of course I could be wrong.

Sorry, it's "How To Train Your Dragon". :)

Ah yes. That worked for the story for HTTYD.

I don't think kids cared that much as if they had missed those couple episodes, if they looked at Panthro again they wouldn't know he lost his arms and got robotic ones. It just looked as though he was wearing long gloves.
Which from a design and new toy selling perspective is really odd. They mage a figure of Panthro with the robotic limbs and it didn't look any different from the first version and there was no feature re-enact any abilities of them from the show. So I don't think many kids would have been desperate to buy another Panthro.
A bit like Lion-O's upgraded clawshield...

I actually prefer the loss of both arms over the alternative of one in both a practical and aesthetic aspect. I am still not sure I would have went in that direction at all but I feel it definitely works with the whole warrior theme. The part that bothered me was the stretchy/comedic direction they took them. As Mark said, I would have liked to see them used in a more rugged/dangerous manner.

"adssse, post: 115398, member: 25051" said:

I actually prefer the loss of both arms over the alternative of one in both a practical and aesthetic aspect. I am still not sure I would have went in that direction at all but I feel it definitely works with the whole warrior theme. The part that bothered me was the stretchy/comedic direction they took them. As Mark said, I would have liked to see them used in a more rugged/dangerous manner.

As I have said before I would have preferred a lot of changes made to the overall designs of the Thundercats. I really don't think Panthro's design did the character any justice and the inclusion of robotic limbs just made the overall design even worse.

"Mark M, post: 115410, member: 5058" said:

As I have said before I would have preferred a lot of changes made to the overall designs of the Thundercats. I really don't think Panthro's design did the character any justice and the inclusion of robotic limbs just made the overall design even worse.

See, I found Panthro's design shocking at first but really warmed up to it. Now he is actually one of my favorites of the redesigns. The thing that actually bothers me the most about the redesigns are the swirls on their cheeks.

"adssse, post: 115420, member: 25051" said:

See, I found Panthro's design shocking at first but really warmed up to it. Now he is actually one of my favorites of the redesigns. The thing that actually bothers me the most about the redesigns are the swirls on their cheeks.

My biggest issue with the redesigns was Lion-O. His hair and clothing mostly.
I wasn't to keen on Tygra's 'Halo' armour or Cheetara's needlessly revealing outfit.
Panthro's outfit was just nowhere near as cool as his original. They really should have made it resemble the original and made it more blue.
Pumyra, Kit and Kat's outfits I thought were fine.

"Mark M, post: 115434, member: 5058" said:

My biggest issue with the redesigns was Lion-O. His hair and clothing mostly.
I wasn't to keen on Tygra's 'Halo' armour or Cheetara's needlessly revealing outfit.
Panthro's outfit was just nowhere near as cool as his original. They really should have made it resemble the original and made it more blue.

Honestly this was what really didn't get me hooked onto the 2011 series. The story, changes, character development all comes later. The first impression comes from the visuals and if those don't grab you, then it's hard to continue watching. The teaser poster that they realeased of a silhouetted running Lion-O was completely different from what we eventually ended up getting.

The overuse of warm earthy tones, greys and blacks and over de-saturation of the blues and greens made the series look like a 1960's Sergio Leone spaghetti western. Lack of color does not equal "mature" (Zack Snyder has that misconception ;)). Many of the DC and Marvel animated shows have some of the insanely brightest colored characters, yet they have very serious and mature stories.

This actually serves a dual purpose. The mature storylines attract the adult audience while the colorful characters translate to attractive toys for the younger fans. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see beforehand that dull colored toys aren't going to fly off the shelves. For a show whose main purpose and source of income was merchandise sales, I'm surprised that the WB execs didn't realize that.

I get you entirely. My first impression of the new Lion-O was that he looked like Sonic The Hedgehog. Between that and the gratuitous sexualisiation of Cheetara's appearance, that was two strikes against it going in.

You could argue that the lack of colouring in the characters' appearance is why the later versions of Star Trek aren't as memorable. That and the whole "attempting to make the captain God" thing with both DS9 and Voyager. Enterprise just felt like they were trying to do TOS in the style of Voyager, or maybe the other way round. Either way it didn't work (although I thought Archer was a good commanding officer, but not as charismatic as past captains). TOS and TNG are still the ones that are remembered most fondly. And the two I have on DVD - I keep meaning to get DS9 on DVD as well, but I never get round to it.

The new Lion-O definitely took some getting used to for me, but I have actually warmed up to it. I would have preferred the blue color scheme for Panthro, but otherwise enjoy the look. Cheetara has to be my biggest beef of the designs as others have said. I believe my favorite redesigns are actually the kittens although I wouldn't mind seeing kit a bit more covered. As for Snarf, the design is ok with me but I really miss him having a speaking role!

"Wilycub, post: 115446, member: 25043" said:

Honestly this was what really didn't get me hooked onto the 2011 series. The story, changes, character development all comes later. The first impression comes from the visuals and if those don't grab you, then it's hard to continue watching. The teaser poster that they realeased of a silhouetted running Lion-O was completely different from what we eventually ended up getting.

The overuse of warm earthy tones, greys and blacks and over de-saturation of the blues and greens made the series look like a 1960's Sergio Leone spaghetti western. Lack of color does not equal "mature" (Zack Snyder has that misconception ;)). Many of the DC and Marvel animated shows have some of the insanely brightest colored characters, yet they have very serious and mature stories.

This actually serves a dual purpose. The mature storylines attract the adult audience while the colorful characters translate to attractive toys for the younger fans. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see beforehand that dull colored toys aren't going to fly off the shelves. For a show whose main purpose and source of income was merchandise sales, I'm surprised that the WB execs didn't realize that.

100% agree. The teaser poster of Lion-O looked amazing. It really was a let down seeing the animation designs after the teaser poster. I suppose though it's like a lot of movies that had great posters and art work only to have awful movies.

I wonder what a Zack Snyder directed My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic movie would look like....LOL. :roflmao
I would actually say Snyder's movies are worse than Michael Bay's. If nothing else at least Bay's have a bit of humour and colour in them. Michael Bay directed Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen and started filming before the script was even finished...and the movie and toys were still financially successful. Maybe DC should give Michael a job on one of their DC movies.
Come to think of it Snyder could probably do a great job on a TMNT movie based on the old black and white comics. ;)

"LiamABC, post: 115448, member: 25438" said:

I get you entirely. My first impression of the new Lion-O was that he looked like Sonic The Hedgehog. Between that and the gratuitous sexualisiation of Cheetara's appearance, that was two strikes against it going in...

Indeed. Cheetara's design looked like it was from an Ecchi anime.

"adssse, post: 115451, member: 25051" said:

The new Lion-O definitely took some getting used to for me, but I have actually warmed up to it. I would have preferred the blue color scheme for Panthro, but otherwise enjoy the look. Cheetara has to be my biggest beef of the designs as others have said. I believe my favorite redesigns are actually the kittens although I wouldn't mind seeing kit a bit more covered. As for Snarf, the design is ok with me but I really miss him having a speaking role!

I agree. Snarf was a great character and they shouldn't have done that to him. Also his design was far to Pokémon inspired.

"adssse, post: 115451, member: 25051" said:

The new Lion-O definitely took some getting used to for me, but I have actually warmed up to it. I would have preferred the blue color scheme for Panthro, but otherwise enjoy the look. Cheetara has to be my biggest beef of the designs as others have said. I believe my favorite redesigns are actually the kittens although I wouldn't mind seeing kit a bit more covered. As for Snarf, the design is ok with me but I really miss him having a speaking role!

The decision not to have Snarf speak was bad, and the episode that suffered the most as a result has to be "The Duelist And The Drifter". The original Snarf would have had so much to say to Lion-O in that one . . .

"LiamABC, post: 115464, member: 25438" said:

The decision not to have Snarf speak was bad, and the episode that suffered the most as a result has to be "The Duelist And The Drifter". The original Snarf would have had so much to say to Lion-O in that one . . .

I wonder if the fact Cringer in the MOTU reboot no longer spoke played a part in them deciding against giving Snarf speaking ability.

"Mark M, post: 115465, member: 5058" said:

I wonder if the fact Cringer in the MOTU reboot no longer spoke played a part in them deciding against giving Snarf speaking ability.

I wonder how popular the MOTU reboot would have been if it also was done in an Anime style with a subdued color palette like the 2011 TCats.

"Wilycub, post: 115476, member: 25043" said:

I wonder how popular the MOTU reboot would have been if it also was done in an Anime style with a subdued color palette like the 2011 TCats.

Well, He-Man' hair was done to be more anime styled compared to the 4 Horsemen's original design, which was basically King Greyskull.
It's hard to say. The writing on the MOTU 200X series was really well done and embraced the history created in the Filmation cartoons and the minicomics. The MOTU 200X series is vastly superior compared to the 2011 Thundercats cartoon.
Mattel ruined the 200X series by releasing multiple variants of He-Man and Skeletor instead of other characters...and those they did release were difficult to find in the shops. That was the biggest reason the toys were not selling that well and when the toys were not selling they cancelled it instead of doing a third season of the cartoon. Which is a real shame as there was some great stuff planned for the third season...especially the coming of Hordak and the Horde army.

I like the design and the colors of Thunderctas better than the motu200x. And the way i see, the 200x palette wasn´t subdued for me.