ThunderCats Rewatch Episode 19-20 Discussion

[CENTER]Episode 19-20: The Pit, Curse of Ratilla
[/CENTER]

Lion-O attempts to rescue a fellow ThunderCat from a fighting arena known as The Pit. The ThunderCats must later infiltrate the mines of Mount Plundarr where Ratar-O is holding Cats as slaves. There they learn the legend ofthe Sword of Plundarr, which they must now retrieve while also freeing their people.


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Well, it does seem like things have upped a gear at last in terms of the main story arc.

In Gladiator - sorry, I mean The Pit - we finally hear something about what's been happening with the cats, courtesy of Pumyra. Considering that we're 3/4 through the season already, this is another one of those episodes that ought to have come a bit earlier. But then maybe that's harsh, because if they'd got the second season and wrapped everything up in that, 3/8 of the way through the total story doesn't seem so bad.

Bizarrely, this episode feels like it's more flashbacks again when technically there aren't that many. I guess that's just the way the series has panned out, too many flashbacks at the expense of the storylines in the present. The whole Panthro-Dobo thing is interesting and deserved more depth - anyone else find themselves comparing Dobo (good Thundercat name for a Doberman btw!) to Oliver Reed's character in the aforementioned Gladiator?

The character of Pumyra is unrecognisable from her original series counterpart - in personality terms at least. To look at, she probably bears the closest resemblance of any of them. Personality-wise, she's a bit one-dimensional - not even willing to listen to Lion-O. I guess now the other characters are finally giving him a break, they needed someone to tell him what a jerk he apparently is. I think by this point in the series, I'd finally accepted Lion-O for what he is, finally seen beyond that Sonic The Hedgehog haircut . . .

And of course, introducing Tookit. In this episode his "kleptovoyant" attitude is intriguing, and provides an interesting subplot. One downside - as with The Duelist And The Drifter, is Snarf's inability to talk. Although he seems to understand orders well enough! But yes, the original Snarf would have had plenty of good lines here. The other trouble is, it does seem at this point like it's just a subplot, he's a fascinating character, but it doesn't feel like this was anything more than a lesson of the week for the Kittens.

In short - this episode is one of the most interesting of the series, and should have come a lot earlier. A bit like the previous two - it's like the real meat of the adventure is crammed into the end of the season after so many filler episodes earlier on that have little or nothing to do with the main story.

Curse Of Ratilla - again, interesting, and some very nice touches. Mount Plundarr is clearly inspired by Castle Plundarr in shape if nothing else. Ratar-O and the whole rat history thing are nicely done. Nice touch in that it was Ratilla in the original series who originally owned the Sword Of Plundarr, and while in this series it is always identified as belonging to Mumm-Ra, Ratilla had his day in the sun with it. Interestingly, Jaga is referred to formally as a Wizard here - and seeing this younger version of him does give us some kind of timeframe to the show. Not much, but something.

Is it me, or is the assistant rat's voice a nod to Peter Lorre? (Not a criticism, just an observation - at least it wasn't Jimmy Cagney!)

The big criticism is definitely the in-your-face attitude of Tygra and Cheetara. As one of the other characters (I think it was Wilykat, but I could be wrong) said earlier in the series, I think I'm going to cough up a hairball. Yes, we get it, they're a couple, they're in love, do they have to get so ridiculously in-your-face with the whole thing?

Also, the freeing of the cat slaves - is it just me, or does that kind of just happen in the background? I know there's a lot to cram into this episode, but they could have made it a two-parter. The slaves, the sword, Ratar-O - there's a lot to explore here. And while they did technically fit everything in, they didn't give as much attention to the other cats as they might have.

Overall, good, could have been a bit better. But at least we're onto the home straight now - we're locked into the main storyline at last. It's taken this long to come to focus, no wonder the show flopped!

Like a few past episodes, these two had aspects about them that made me watch them. But at the same time, they also had parts that didn't sit well with me.

When I first found out that Pumyra was going to be debuting in "The Pit", I was looking forward to it, mainly because I was among those fans who was hoping that Pumyra would end up becoming Lion-O's true love interest. However, I ended up finding her behavior to be somewhat unfair and unreasonable. Lion-O was willing to take a big chance to free her and how does she thank him? She yells at him, she calls him her enemy (an enemy who was trying to free her), she blames him for her troubles and even goes as far as to threaten him. Then, in the arena, she claims that it was his "weakness" that led to Thundera's downfall and even proceeds to pummel him ferociously, and when everything is over, all of a sudden, all is forgiven for her. That just doesn't feel right. Fact 1.) Lion-O had virtually no hand at all in the Fall of Thundera (not mentioning that vision doesn't really count, because, even if he had told anyone, do you really think that anyone would have believed him?) and wasn't even made the king until all was done already. Fact 2.) Lion-O was told by Jaga himself to find the Book of Omens, is Pumyra saying that he should have ignored the advice of Jaga the Wise? Fact 3.) Considering the way Thundera looked when Lion-O, Snarf, Tygra, Cheetara and the Wilytwins left, the other Cats would have likely been long gone already or, as the group probably just assumed at the time, been killed already. Fact 4.) Say Pumyra did manage to kill Lion-O, what did she think was going to happen after that and when she earned her freedom? Did she think that she could just hook up with Tygra and the others? After the stunt she pulled, i would have been surprised if they didn't send her away and/or attack her and/or throw a death threat at her and as an incentive to make sure that they never see her again. Even if she found other Cats, sooner or later, if the Thundercats won the war, Tygra would have been made King again and he would most likely banish her from all Cat kind or worse. I will say this though; Panthro's history with Dobo and the Thunderkittens/Tookit subplot were nice as were the facts that the Thundercats now possibly have Dog allies and that we saw a Dog civilization (I'm a Dog lover, you see).

"Curse of Ratilla" was more preferable; it had a good story, good action and a few nice twists at the near end. Also, it was nice to get to see Ratar-O and his band, Ratilla's history and his battle with Jaga in the flashback and that fight between Lion-O and Ratar-O, that one just felt like one of Lion-O's more epic wins. Plus, it was also nice to see at least one Non-Thundercat Thunderian who treated Lion-O with respect and that brief scene with Lion-O and Pumyra really hit a cord in me and made me hopeful. Oh, and also Ratar-O was a very menacing, very ruthless and very effective villain, with an air of sophistication to him as well. My only real gripe with this episode is the fact that Pumyra blamed Lion-O's sparing of Mordax as the reason for their getting caught, even though it was clearly her fault; she went off the original plan just to satisfy her own blood lust and revealed their presence to enemy in the process. If she had just followed Lion-O's plan, they never would got caught in the first place.

That's all i have to say

"LiamABC, post: 110734, member: 25438" said:

anyone else find themselves comparing Dobo (good Thundercat name for a Doberman btw!) to Oliver Reed's character in the aforementioned Gladiator?

That's exactly what I thought when I first saw the episode! :) Just like Reed's character in "The Gladiator", Dobo too starts out as a fighter who goes on to earn his freedom and eventually takes over the business.

Another two episodes.
I enjoyed both of these episodes. As has been said its a shame it's taken this long for the series to get interesting.

The Pit was a good episode. It was cool seeing the dogs and learning more about Panthro. Pumyra is definitely an interesting character.
I didn't like how Panthro left Dobo, when they were friends would it not have made more sense for the two of them to escape together?
That fighter in the pit with the removable spiked head should have been fleshed out more. It screamed toy potential. Very much like those Madball action figures.

The Curse of Ratilla I also liked. This is another episode where surprisingly Cheetara and Tygra have more than one line of dialogue. My only real complaint with this episode is the choice of voice actor for Rataro. I honestly do not think that voice suits the character well at all. Rataro looks pretty close to his original look.

But what is with all the flashbacks. It's like every episode has to have a flashback.

It's good we are in the home straight. After so many dull episodes, watching these every week has become a real chore instead of the excitement of seeing them.

Should we maybe do a marathon and finish the last 6 epiosdes next week LOL?

I know what you mean about Rataro's voice. He doesn't sound like a rat. That's the thing about the Mutants in the original - their voices matched their species. Slithe sounded reptilian, Monkian sounded apelike, Vultureman sounded like a bird.

Good point about why didn't Panthro and Dobo escape together. The fighter with the detachable head - yes, that had toy potential all right. The design was wasted on this one-time character, Gormax was it? Actually, re my earlier comments paralleling The Duelist And The Drifter, that character is perhaps equivalent to the Duelist here, indestructible.

And yes, finally getting into the main story arc. Reminds me - last week's two episodes both referenced the fact that Lion-O and Tygra were looking for a shortcut - to where? This place or somewhere else? If it was to this place, then why didn't Panthro accompany them? After all, he's been there before. If it was somewhere else, then why didn't we see that place? They missed out so much - made the show too dependent on flashbacks. Oh well . . .

"LiamABC, post: 110753, member: 25438" said:

I know what you mean about Rataro's voice. He doesn't sound like a rat. That's the thing about the Mutants in the original - their voices matched their species. Slithe sounded reptilian, Monkian sounded apelike, Vultureman sounded like a bird.

Good point about why didn't Panthro and Dobo escape together. The fighter with the detachable head - yes, that had toy potential all right. The design was wasted on this one-time character, Gormax was it? Actually, re my earlier comments paralleling The Duelist And The Drifter, that character is perhaps equivalent to the Duelist here, indestructible.

And yes, finally getting into the main story arc. Reminds me - last week's two episodes both referenced the fact that Lion-O and Tygra were looking for a shortcut - to where? This place or somewhere else? If it was to this place, then why didn't Panthro accompany them? After all, he's been there before. If it was somewhere else, then why didn't we see that place? They missed out so much - made the show too dependent on flashbacks. Oh well . . .

That is a goo dpoint about looking for the shortcut if this is the place they were looking for.
So speaking of shortcuts what do you think about a marathon to finish the series? LOL. ;)

No, we've been going steady on 2 episodes a week now for 10wks, one more week instead of three is hardly worth it at this stage, let's just keep on discussing them 2 at a time.

"LiamABC, post: 110762, member: 25438" said:

No, we've been going steady on 2 episodes a week now for 10wks, one more week instead of three is hardly worth it at this stage, let's just keep on discussing them 2 at a time.

Yes you are right, no short cuts, lets do it for the long haul.

Well as somebody who is biased against this series anyway my biggest complaint about cheetara in the whole thing is that she just seems like a designated love interest for tygra. As far as I can remember from watching the show all the way through she has no real episode centered on herself. panthro does, lion-o does, tygra does, the annoying twins do but cheetara does not. She seems to lack her own personality throughout and have I mentioned how much I hate what they did to pumyra? Because I can't stand what they did to her. Forgive me for using foul language but it seems they turned her from a kind hearted and caring character in the original to a very angry b****! and the twin are even more pointless.
They could have done much better with the episodes above. Like not giving the twins a side plot with that annoying racoon and making pumyra stop acting like somebody put sand in her cereal.

1. Is anyone actually reading my posts anymore?

2. Personally, I'm glad that they took away the animal sounds from the Mutants' speech patterns and restricted them to mere moments of animalistic behavior. That always struck me as annoying in the old show. But this way, we actually hear their personalities clearly in the way they talk, not just have them be heard under sounds that simply remind us what kind of animals they are. For example: Ratar-O portrays himself as a creature of power, breeding, intelligence and nobility, and thus speaks with a tone befitting someone with a high position in high-class society.

&

3. I like the fact that this show actually has the other animal species be portrayed as good, evil and indifferent, like dogs. In the original series, they were making it quite clear that the Thundercats were the noble heroes of the galaxy and any other animal race (usually represented by the Mutants) were evil villains and conquerors. Here, all of the animal species shown living on Third Earth, including the Cats, can be either good guys, bad guys or just neutral, which is, basically, how the real world is too.

That is a point. In some ways, it's a point that is almost parodied by some of the attitudes of the cats in this series, when they ridicule Lion-O's efforts to bring peace to all the species.

"LiamABC, post: 110940, member: 25438" said:

That is a point. In some ways, it's a point that is almost parodied by some of the attitudes of the cats in this series, when they ridicule Lion-O's efforts to bring peace to all the species.

Another reason the 'heroes' were not the most likable having a real snobby superiority complex.

"srebak, post: 110938, member: 25156" said:

1. Is anyone actually reading my posts anymore?

2. Personally, I'm glad that they took away the animal sounds from the Mutants' speech patterns and restricted them to mere moments of animalistic behavior. That always struck me as annoying in the old show. But this way, we actually hear their personalities clearly in the way they talk, not just have them be heard under sounds that simply remind us what kind of animals they are. For example: Ratar-O portrays himself as a creature of power, breeding, intelligence and nobility, and thus speaks with a tone befitting someone with a high position in high-class society.

&

3. I like the fact that this show actually has the other animal species be portrayed as good, evil and indifferent, like dogs. In the original series, they were making it quite clear that the Thundercats were the noble heroes of the galaxy and any other animal race (usually represented by the Mutants) were evil villains and conquerors. Here, all of the animal species shown living on Third Earth, including the Cats, can be either good guys, bad guys or just neutral, which is, basically, how the real world is too.

But I LIKED it when Slithe would say "Yessssss?"It was a quirk that didn't need to be removed.

and no I have no problem with the more realistic approach to all the animals but I do have problem with the way it's portrayed. and Yes as i said BEFORE I liked slithe's YESSSSSS? quirk. Also I have a MAJOR problem with mumm-ra's apparent racism against animals when 1: his design implies he's some kind of BAT which is an animal and 2: it would be later shown that he was actually a THUNDERCAT himself which annoys me how he subjugated CATS and looked down on them as "animals" when HE is one himself! It would make sense if he were a HUMAN but he was not! They removed that interesting aspect about him by making him a bat/cat. and NO I won't EVER get over that because it's so STUPID!
But just remember there were good bad and neutral animals on third earth in the original as well. Like the walrus people.

That's not strictly accurate - but it's also not a topic for this thread anyway, wait until the next couple of episodes for that ;)

"LiamABC, post: 110992, member: 25438" said:

That's not strictly accurate - but it's also not a topic for this thread anyway, wait until the next couple of episodes for that ;)

I should just write a long winded TL;DR post in a forum.

It's just the "no spoilers" rule, quoted at the top of all these rewatch threads. You can discuss any of the episodes up to the ones that the thread is focusing on, but not later ones.

"LiamABC, post: 111016, member: 25438" said:

It's just the "no spoilers" rule, quoted at the top of all these re-watch threads. You can discuss any of the episodes up to the ones that the thread is focusing on, but not later ones.

I thought his apparent racism was obvious since the episode where Lion-O went into the book. as for mumm-ra being a thundercat that wasn't even in the series proper but it WAS in concept art and season 2 pitches. >_< so wouldn't saying it be a spoiler for everything?

Finally up to speed with this awesome thread!

The Pitt: Great episode. Loved the design of the dogtown, great new characters. I really liked Dobo and his ties to Panthro. Pumyra is well executed, though, as someone already mentioned, a bit "one-note". Tookit is awesome and indeed only introduced to gine Kit & Kat something to do, but he also bring the Forever-Bag, so... Also Kleptovoyance is a brilliant notion. The story is standard and a bit predictable, but that's not a bad thing. The execution holds up.

Curse Of Ratilla: One of my favorite episodes. I'm a sucker for all these references and callbacks, so... The updated design for Ratar-O is beautiful and the voice actor, Carlo Rota, did an amazing job. He wouldnt be my first choice, I still prefer Bob McFadden, but I've come to like his Ratar-O very much! The Ratilla/Jaga history is well done and, again, I love the (obvious) hommage to the 80's series. The so called chase through Mount PlunDarr was a bit pants :)

"mumm_ra_n_rana, post: 111018, member: 26022" said:

I thought his apparent racism was obvious since the episode where Lion-O went into the book. as for mumm-ra being a thundercat that wasn't even in the series proper but it WAS in concept art and season 2 pitches. >_< so wouldn't saying it be a spoiler for everything?

MOD note: Please just follow the guideline posted by the OP, thanks.

"thunderianroyalguard, post: 111030, member: 524" said:

Finally up to speed with this awesome thread!

The Pitt: Great episode. Loved the design of the dogtown, great new characters. I really liked Dobo and his ties to Panthro. Pumyra is well executed, though, as someone already mentioned, a bit "one-note". Tookit is awesome and indeed only introduced to gine Kit & Kat something to do, but he also bring the Forever-Bag, so... Also Kleptovoyance is a brilliant notion. The story is standard and a bit predictable, but that's not a bad thing. The execution holds up.

Curse Of Ratilla: One of my favorite episodes. I'm a sucker for all these references and callbacks, so... The updated design for Ratar-O is beautiful and the voice actor, Carlo Rota, did an amazing job. He wouldnt be my first choice, I still prefer Bob McFadden, but I've come to like his Ratar-O very much! The Ratilla/Jaga history is well done and, again, I love the (obvious) hommage to the 80's series. The so called chase through Mount PlunDarr was a bit pants :)



MOD note: Please just follow the guideline posted by the OP, thanks.

thanks for NOT answering my question.