ThunderCats Rewatch Episode 11-12 Discussion

[CENTER]Episode 11-12: The Forest of Magi Oar, Into the Astral Plane
[/CENTER]

Sent by the Elephants to the Forest of Magi Oar, Lion-O must learn to master Sight Beyond Sight before returning to the Elephant Village. The Cats encounter a group of paper warriors with a dark secret. Later the Cats are ready to retrieve the stone from the "Astral Plane" in the Elephant Village, but find it overtaken by Grune and Mumm-Ra's forces.

Hey everyone.

Again a very hectic week. I've yet to comment on the episode thread previous to this one and will get it done by the end of the day. Good to see there has been some discussion anyway so you are fine even when I'm a slowpoke.

A few things to remember:


Spoilers about future episodes are not allowed. In the discussion threads we talk about what we’ve seen up until that point in time.


Just a friendly reminder to everyone that, whilst fans are obviously welcome to passionately discuss and give their views on these episodes, please remember to keep things on a friendly footing and respect your fellow posters.


Also, please do not post where or how to find the full episode online. And do not post asking others to PM it to you. You are however allowed to watch the show in whatever manner you want.

The Forest of Magi Oar.
A very odd episode. I liked the voice casting of Richard Chamberlin and Hector Elezondo. But I fund the villains very dull. Needless to say Peter Lawrence had been reading a lot of Japanese literature or possibly studying the Okami video game. ;)

Into the Astral Plane.
I really enjoyed this episode. The flash back scenes were interesting and really helped build the characters of Tygra and Cheetara.
The scene with Tygra drving the tank was really awesome. Although that scene alone prove how much bigger and cooler the toy should have been with firing missles. :D

Episode 11 didn't really work for me around the beginning, but, after the Wood Forgers showed job, it started to get my attention.

The action in Episode 11 did get me interested, but, it felt like they were trying make us feel sympathy for Tygra that he didn't really deserve. So, we're supposed to feel sorry for the cat who couldn't become king due being adopted, yet we're supposed feel no sympathy for the cat who he spent years showing-up, humiliating and insulting. No matter how I look at it, Lion-O is the victim in this relationship, I'm almost certain that the real reason why he didn't "take his royal duties seriously" was because Tygra showed him up so many times that he just threw up his hands and said "oh, what's the point?". I really cannot feel any sympathy for Tygra, at all.

"srebak, post: 108923, member: 25156" said:

Episode 11 didn't really work for me around the beginning, but, after the Wood Forgers showed job, it started to get my attention.

The action in Episode 11 did get me interested, but, it felt like they were trying make us feel sympathy for Tygra that he didn't really deserve. So, we're supposed to feel sorry for the cat who couldn't become king due being adopted, yet we're supposed feel no sympathy for the cat who he spent years showing-up, humiliating and insulting. No matter how I look at it, Lion-O is the victim in this relationship, I'm almost certain that the real reason why he didn't "take his royal duties seriously" was because Tygra showed him up so many times that he just threw up his hands and said "oh, what's the point?". I really cannot feel any sympathy for Tygra, at all.

I don't think the intention was for people to feel sympathy for Tygra. It was just to try and make him interesting.

The Forest Of Magi Oar - very curious episode. Written by one of the main writers of the original show, Peter Lawrence, and very close to his original episode "Good And Ugly", where the characters presented as villains initially turn out not to be, and the clue is when the sword won't attack them. It's fairly obvious, I got it about halfway through first time.

There are lots of interesting touches here. Firstly, the voice casting - Richard Chamberlain I didn't recognise at all. Of course I know him best as Aramis in the definitive Musketeer films from the 1970s (and their 1980s sequel), but I didn't know of him doing any voice performances. I had to check IMDb when I saw his name at the end, and it was indeed the same bloke. Wow. Hector Elizondo on the other hand, I know from a number of things. Notably as Ioz in The Pirates Of Dark Water, and as that giant owl that guards that library in Avatar and The Legend Of Korra, and also as the most interesting character in the two Princess Diaries films (which I watched almost by mistake when looking to find Ella Enchanted, which again stars Anne Hathaway as a princess . . . what can I say!)

I liked the live paper effects, and there's a number of points here. Firstly, when Zigg draws a golden outline of Virigor, it reminds me of BraveStarr's "eyes of the hawk" power. Secondly, the short fat guy in the purple - whose name escapes me. I don't know if it's just the purple attire of the (paper) shuriken he wields, but he makes me think of the Purple Hordes in King Arthur And The Knights Of Justice. I'm sure there's a character there who looks very similar to him. And of course the whole "image of Lion-O on lots of pieces of paper" effect for showing the big picture. I must admit as a writer of stories myself, I appreciate how what seems like a throwaway detail at the time can have huge significance down the line (especially in crime and thrillers!). I also use these same devices when talking to people sometimes, saying something seemingly random at the start and as my tale unfolds, people see what I'm getting at.

All in all it's an episode with lots of good touches, but it doesn't feel like it's part of the main story, and it's sort of introduced as if it's meant to be that. So, altogether I'm not sure.

Into The Astral Plane - well, this one definitely IS part of the main story again, but at the same time, there's a few too many flashbacks again at the expense of the here-and-now story. On the plus side, we do get some backstory for Tygra and Cheetara AT LAST! On the minus side, the whole bit about Grune and the lizards finding and ransacking the elephant village didn't get enough attention, and when it did, a lot of it was comedic. Sorry, this is the wrong place for the comedy moments. We're at a crucial point in the story, learning the whereabouts of the second stone, and the elephants' lousy memories are just taking away from the suspense. While it's perfectly fine to have comedy moments in suspense movies - as Alfred Hitcchock showed time and again - you don't have the comic distraction during the suspenseful scenes, you have it between them. You don't make them laugh at the exact same moment you're making them gasp.

I did like the moment where the Thundertank saves the day, driven by Tygra. "Who said he could drive it?" asks Panthro - well, my guess is, having ridden upfront as much as he did, Tygra had plenty of time to observe Panthro's actions in driving the vehicle. As for the prophesied betrayal - this is a difficult thing to talk about properly without referencing the next episode, I'll take care. I must admit, first time around, that got me. Lion-O and Tygra have been at loggerheads since day one. But this time around, Tygra's honesty about that just undoes it for me. If Tygra really had treacherous intentions, then surely he'd make sure not to voice anything antagonistic on the matter!

Overall then, as with much of this series - interesting ideas, but could have been a lot better.

"LiamABC, post: 108944, member: 25438" said:

The Forest Of Magi Oar - very curious episode. Written by one of the main writers of the original show, Peter Lawrence, and very close to his original episode "Good And Ugly", where the characters presented as villains initially turn out not to be, and the clue is when the sword won't attack them. It's fairly obvious, I got it about halfway through first time.

There are lots of interesting touches here. Firstly, the voice casting - Richard Chamberlain I didn't recognise at all. Of course I know him best as Aramis in the definitive Musketeer films from the 1970s (and their 1980s sequel), but I didn't know of him doing any voice performances. I had to check IMDb when I saw his name at the end, and it was indeed the same bloke. Wow. Hector Elizondo on the other hand, I know from a number of things. Notably as Ioz in The Pirates Of Dark Water, and as that giant owl that guards that library in Avatar and The Legend Of Korra, and also as the most interesting character in the two Princess Diaries films (which I watched almost by mistake when looking to find Ella Enchanted, which again stars Anne Hathaway as a princess . . . what can I say!)

I liked the live paper effects, and there's a number of points here. Firstly, when Zigg draws a golden outline of Virigor, it reminds me of BraveStarr's "eyes of the hawk" power. Secondly, the short fat guy in the purple - whose name escapes me. I don't know if it's just the purple attire of the (paper) shuriken he wields, but he makes me think of the Purple Hordes in King Arthur And The Knights Of Justice. I'm sure there's a character there who looks very similar to him. And of course the whole "image of Lion-O on lots of pieces of paper" effect for showing the big picture. I must admit as a writer of stories myself, I appreciate how what seems like a throwaway detail at the time can have huge significance down the line (especially in crime and thrillers!). I also use these same devices when talking to people sometimes, saying something seemingly random at the start and as my tale unfolds, people see what I'm getting at.

All in all it's an episode with lots of good touches, but it doesn't feel like it's part of the main story, and it's sort of introduced as if it's meant to be that. So, altogether I'm not sure.

Into The Astral Plane - well, this one definitely IS part of the main story again, but at the same time, there's a few too many flashbacks again at the expense of the here-and-now story. On the plus side, we do get some backstory for Tygra and Cheetara AT LAST! On the minus side, the whole bit about Grune and the lizards finding and ransacking the elephant village didn't get enough attention, and when it did, a lot of it was comedic. Sorry, this is the wrong place for the comedy moments. We're at a crucial point in the story, learning the whereabouts of the second stone, and the elephants' lousy memories are just taking away from the suspense. While it's perfectly fine to have comedy moments in suspense movies - as Alfred Hitcchock showed time and again - you don't have the comic distraction during the suspenseful scenes, you have it between them. You don't make them laugh at the exact same moment you're making them gasp.

I did like the moment where the Thundertank saves the day, driven by Tygra. "Who said he could drive it?" asks Panthro - well, my guess is, having ridden upfront as much as he did, Tygra had plenty of time to observe Panthro's actions in driving the vehicle. As for the prophesied betrayal - this is a difficult thing to talk about properly without referencing the next episode, I'll take care. I must admit, first time around, that got me. Lion-O and Tygra have been at loggerheads since day one. But this time around, Tygra's honesty about that just undoes it for me. If Tygra really had treacherous intentions, then surely he'd make sure not to voice anything antagonistic on the matter!

Overall then, as with much of this series - interesting ideas, but could have been a lot better.

Good point about the Good and Evil comparison.
I had forgotten about Hector being in Avatar.

I do think The Forest of Magi Oar is an okay solo episode. Good world building here and it's a nice twist that the "monster" is not the bad guy. Overall though, like the whole show in general it's a big mess in the grand scheme of things. Why have they not explained sight beyond sight fully? Feels like they think everyone knows how it works and what it actually is and settle things with Cheetara? What are they, teenage boys? Wait...

Ending was also a little weird. What did he learn? He just saw the stone being in the hut again and the episode ends with "Lets go get that stone". Everything feels forced.

I swear the ideas and stuff for this show is GREAT they just don´t execute it in a good way.

Same at the start of the new episode. Astral plane? Have i missed something or have they forgot to mention it before? If they just removed some of the filler, some of the lion-o have episodes (or use them later) it would have been easier to understand and a better experneince doing it to boot. If i can't keep up how was a kid supposed to do it?

The second episode is decent but then again is plauged by flashbacks and a forced Lion-O vs Tygra confrontation. I swear that there should be no reason for these two to be fighting. It´s just something they made up for the sake of it even though it makes no sense. "There is some kind of darkness in him" Oh what, so Tygra is about to turn evil now all of a sudden to make it more interesting? Give me a break!

Overall i think these episodes are decent. They work out fine but it´s no wonder this show did not continue past the 24 original episodes. It's a big story mess that you have to suspend your disbelief for most of the things to work.

"Rizefall, post: 110417, member: 24745" said:

I do think The Forest of Magi Oar is an okay solo episode. Good world building here and it's a nice twist that the "monster" is not the bad guy. Overall though, like the whole show in general it's a big mess in the grand scheme of things. Why have they not explained sight beyond sight fully? Feels like they think everyone knows how it works and what it actually is and settle things with Cheetara? What are they, teenage boys? Wait...

Ending was also a little weird. What did he learn? He just saw the stone being in the hut again and the episode ends with "Lets go get that stone". Everything feels forced.

I swear the ideas and stuff for this show is GREAT they just don´t execute it in a good way.

Same at the start of the new episode. Astral plane? Have i missed something or have they forgot to mention it before? If they just removed some of the filler, some of the lion-o have episodes (or use them later) it would have been easier to understand and a better experneince doing it to boot. If i can't keep up how was a kid supposed to do it?

The second episode is decent but then again is plauged by flashbacks and a forced Lion-O vs Tygra confrontation. I swear that there should be no reason for these two to be fighting. It´s just something they made up for the sake of it even though it makes no sense. "There is some kind of darkness in him" Oh what, so Tygra is about to turn evil now all of a sudden to make it more interesting? Give me a break!

Overall i think these episodes are decent. They work out fine but it´s no wonder this show did not continue past the 24 original episodes. It's a big story mess that you have to suspend your disbelief for most of the things to work.

I agree with a lot of what you said.

"Mark M, post: 110418, member: 5058" said:

I agree with a lot of what you said.

And that's the sad part that you do. I remember the forums being quite negative for the series and i can understand it better now when all the hype has settled down for me. It's a really flawed show. It shows promise but they just.. f*ck it up.

"Rizefall, post: 110420, member: 24745" said:

And that's the sad part that you do. I remember the forums being quite negative for the series and i can understand it better now when all the hype has settled down for me. It's a really flawed show. It shows promise but they just.. f*ck it up.

I was never a huge fan of the show. There is a lot of good ideas but as has been said so much was poorly executed.

"Mark M, post: 110422, member: 5058" said:

I was never a huge fan of the show. There is a lot of good ideas but as has been said so much was poorly executed.

I was the first time around but i think my hype for it blinded me for many of it's faults. I remembered it being better and making more sense but sad to say i was wrong.

"Rizefall, post: 110453, member: 24745" said:

I was the first time around but i think my hype for it blinded me for many of it's faults. I remembered it being better and making more sense but sad to say i was wrong.

It's like that for a lot of people with many things. You can want something to be good so much that you over look it's faults.
I am not saying that something has to be perfect by any means...but there is a limit to what can be excused. We are 18 episodes into re-watching the series so far its has been more miss than hit.