Thundercats picture quality and mastering for DVD

"Booshman, post: 126188, member: 25641" said:

It's quite the undertaking you've set for yourself. For me I would want it to keep the art as true original as possible. I'm sure the original art had much more detail than we see at dvd resolution, but if you start adding embellishments you turn it into something different than it was.

I think at alternative could be to upscale the intro and filter the original footage to clean it up. You could also go frame by frame and remove any dirt, scratches from the backgrounds, then overlay your new cels to cover the characters.

Super resolution is a good tool and now free. Might be worth a try.

http://www.infognition.com/super_resolution/

Huge undertaking indeed. But nothing is easy on traditional animation process.
The original intro got a lot of, let's say, inconsistencies...
Analysing frame by frame, one can confirm small details don't match the original character design.
Small things from Panthro not having vertical pupils to some missing clothes and bodyparts details on Lion-Oo and Tygra
made me realise that it won't be a good process to just put filters on the original work.

I agree that this intro is ahead of its time. The technique applied, the camera movement,
all that dynamic put together was replicated on animation only ten years later.

Besides, the filter process of super resolution won't be able to create the final art from 4:3 to 16:9.
So I'll keep on the old ways any day.
I also agree that putting too much stuff on it would transform in anything else, but at the same time,
I really doubt people notice these small details and inconsistencies I've mention before.
If they did, they are a few hardcore fans, probably a little too nitpicking on that matter.

I shouldn't be sharing that stuff, for I believe to get hyped with something like this is not cool.
I need time to do it right and people expecting an early result would be tragic, but here you go.

[MEDIA=youtube]-Baync8Nsgk[/MEDIA]

Only six seconds, but it took me more than two months to complete it.
It lacks the gradient background, still it's easier than what I've accomplished here.

Great!

"Joseph Korso, post: 126191, member: 27168" said:

Huge undertaking indeed. But nothing is easy on traditional animation process.
The original intro got a lot of, let's say, inconsistencies...
Analysing frame by frame, one can confirm small details don't match the original character design.
Small things from Panthro not having vertical pupils to some missing clothes and bodyparts details on Lion-Oo and Tygra
made me realise that it won't be a good process to just put filters on the original work.

I agree that this intro is ahead of its time. The technique applied, the camera movement,
all that dynamic put together was replicated on animation only ten years later.

Besides, the filter process of super resolution won't be able to create the final art from 4:3 to 16:9.
So I'll keep on the old ways any day.
I also agree that putting too much stuff on it would transform in anything else, but at the same time,
I really doubt people notice these small details and inconsistencies I've mention before.
If they did, they are a few hardcore fans, probably a little too nitpicking on that matter.

I shouldn't be sharing that stuff, for I believe to get hyped with something like this is not cool.
I need time to do it right and people expecting an early result would be tragic, but here you go.

[MEDIA=youtube]-Baync8Nsgk[/MEDIA]

Only six seconds, but it took me more than two months to complete it.
It lacks the gradient background, still it's easier than what I've accomplished here.

Love the widescreen effect you gave these guys. :)

"Daremonger, post: 126194, member: 25241" said:

Love the widescreen effect you gave these guys. :)

It's a start then. :laugh

"Joseph Korso, post: 126195, member: 27168" said:

It's a start then. :laugh

For sure.

Will you be releasing a version without the additional shadow detail?

"Booshman, post: 126199, member: 25641" said:

Will you be releasing a version without the additional shadow detail?

I'll share final results, but won't be a 100% exact copy from the original.

I'm in need of a little assistance with the remaster, if anyone who owns the series on Vudu or Amazon can help? If someone can look at the last anointment trial and check the final scene to see if it's quite scratched. Vertical lines present while Lion-O is handed the claw-shield to the big Thundercats HO! at the end. I doubt the master will be any different to the DVD set, but it is possible.

Will take a look here.
That's sad if all the sources are like this.

"Joseph Korso, post: 126491, member: 27168" said:

Will take a look here.
That's sad if all the sources are like this.

Thanks. Luckily not unfix-able, but it would save a lot of messing around to get a better source.

Unfortunately yes.
Same artifacts on the screen.

Oh well, it's as I expected, but thanks for checking. What service did you check?

"Booshman, post: 126490, member: 25641" said:

I'm in need of a little assistance with the remaster, if anyone who owns the series on Vudu or Amazon can help? If someone can look at the last anointment trial and check the final scene to see if it's quite scratched. Vertical lines present while Lion-O is handed the claw-shield to the big Thundercats HO! at the end. I doubt the master will be any different to the DVD set, but it is possible.

Would the Region 2 DVDs be any different from the Region 1 ones?

"Booshman, post: 126499, member: 25641" said:

Oh well, it's as I expected, but thanks for checking. What service did you check?

It's my rip for Region 4 DVDs.
Same source I'm afraid.

In case no one has noticed, I'd like to mention that I have checked out some DVD rips I have from (I believe) the UK show that they seem to be using the same source as the US for season 1. But for everything post-season one, the quality is very different. Specifically, episodes such as "Catfight", "The Heritage" and "Screwloose" do NOT have the yellowed effect. Granted, the rips are not of the highest quality, but if you haven't already looked into them Booshman, I would recommend you have a peak.

Wonder if the master tapes are still around.
Don't know how they do the stuff for releasing into HD format, but if the originals were kept...

"ButterflyBoy, post: 126505, member: 16168" said:

In case no one has noticed, I'd like to mention that I have checked out some DVD rips I have from (I believe) the UK show that they seem to be using the same source as the US for season 1. But for everything post-season one, the quality is very different. Specifically, episodes such as "Catfight", "The Heritage" and "Screwloose" do NOT have the yellowed effect. Granted, the rips are not of the highest quality, but if you haven't already looked into them Booshman, I would recommend you have a peak.

I have all the episodes in NTSC and PAL, and the source for each restoration has been chosen by which is the best of the 2. Most of the very early episodes are NTSC, with the better source for a lot of the forst season being PAL. Some episodes I have used bits of both, Tower of Traps for instance is half and half, due to a field blending issue with the retail NTSC DVD. Some of the episodes, even though they look to be derived from the same source, and have comparable detail and sharpness, are cropped differently between NTSC and PAL, with more image view-able on certain sides.

Just a note that the NTSC episodes and PAL have slightly different timings, where they were cut for commercials, so converting a PAL episode to NTSC, they won't automatically match up perfectly. So every time I use a PAL episode, I have to edit it manually to match. This includes the intro, first half, second half, epilogue, end credits and Telepix logo. (Not particularly interesting info, but just to give you an indication of the work that is going into doing these episodes. Editing the PAL episodes to NTSC timing means all the NTSC audio and subs match so I don't have to convert the PAL versions.

I have also noticed a few occasions where the PAL tapes were edited incorrectly and the fade outs, either at the mid point of the episode, or the end of part 2, or the epilogue, will cut to black mid fade out. they have obviously gotten a bit keen when converting to PAL and trimmed a few frames by mistake.

I think the biggest case of a difference in quality between formats is the PAL version of Totem of Dera. The main episode, not the intro and outro, look amazing. They have gone back to the original film and not a broadcast tape, the colour and detail a a huge step up from the other episodes, and is the closest we can get to seeing what the series might look like on bluray.

"Joseph Korso, post: 126506, member: 27168" said:

Wonder if the master tapes are still around.
Don't know how they do the stuff for releasing into HD format, but if the originals were kept...

Based on what I mentioned about totem of Dera, I have a hope that the episodes still survive in much better quality than we got on DVD. It would be a big undertaking for WB to get them all prepared for a HD release, hopefully one day Thundercats proves a big enough asset to them to warrant it.


Is anyone able to check the last scene from either VUDU or Amazon streaming. We've established that both the NTSC and PAL DVD's are the same tape, but I remember Daremonger found one episode before that had a different tape used for streaming. I just want to count this option out completely before I go fixing the scene a frame at a time.

"Booshman, post: 126507, member: 25641" said:

I have all the episodes in NTSC and PAL, and the source for each restoration has been chosen by which is the best of the 2. Most of the very early episodes are NTSC, with the better source for a lot of the forst season being PAL. Some episodes I have used bits of both, Tower of Traps for instance is half and half, due to a field blending issue with the retail NTSC DVD. Some of the episodes, even though they look to be derived from the same source, and have comparable detail and sharpness, are cropped differently between NTSC and PAL, with more image view-able on certain sides.

Just a note that the NTSC episodes and PAL have slightly different timings, where they were cut for commercials, so converting a PAL episode to NTSC, they won't automatically match up perfectly. So every time I use a PAL episode, I have to edit it manually to match. This includes the intro, first half, second half, epilogue, end credits and Telepix logo. (Not particularly interesting info, but just to give you an indication of the work that is going into doing these episodes. Editing the PAL episodes to NTSC timing means all the NTSC audio and subs match so I don't have to convert the PAL versions.

I have also noticed a few occasions where the PAL tapes were edited incorrectly and the fade outs, either at the mid point of the episode, or the end of part 2, or the epilogue, will cut to black mid fade out. they have obviously gotten a bit keen when converting to PAL and trimmed a few frames by mistake.

I think the biggest case of a difference in quality between formats is the PAL version of Totem of Dera. The main episode, not the intro and outro, look amazing. They have gone back to the original film and not a broadcast tape, the colour and detail a a huge step up from the other episodes, and is the closest we can get to seeing what the series might look like on bluray.



Based on what I mentioned about totem of Dera, I have a hope that the episodes still survive in much better quality than we got on DVD. It would be a big undertaking for WB to get them all prepared for a HD release, hopefully one day Thundercats proves a big enough asset to them to warrant it.


Is anyone able to check the last scene from either VUDU or Amazon streaming. We've established that both the NTSC and PAL DVD's are the same tape, but I remember Daremonger found one episode before that had a different tape used for streaming. I just want to count this option out completely before I go fixing the scene a frame at a time.

I'd found another episode on Amazon sourced from a different tape as well ("The Trouble with ThunderKittens"). :wilykit:wilykat

"Daremonger, post: 126508, member: 25241" said:

I'd found another episode on Amazon sourced from a different tape as well ("The Trouble with ThunderKittens"). :wilykit:wilykat

How does it compare to the DVD?

"Booshman, post: 126509, member: 25641" said:

How does it compare to the DVD?

The print of "The Trouble with ThunderKittens" on DVD is the broadcast version, while another print of said episode I saw on Amazon was an early-1990s Warner Bros. print.