ThunderCats anthropometric data

In another thread (http://thundercats.org/forums/index.php?threads/big-cheetara.1587/), He-Fan stated that there's a fact file listing Lion-O's height. I was wondering if there are similar details for the other characters, perhaps even including weight as well. I've been working off a model sheet that shows the principal characters -- one that has a line drawn at the top of Tygra's mane, which I presume is meant to indicate the six-foot mark. Based on that, and assuming that the crown of one's head is roughly five inches from the center of the eyes, I've calculated all the heights thus:

4ʹ1ʺ - Snarf (measured to top of ears)
4ʹ2½ʺ - WilyKit
4ʹ4½ʺ - WilyKat
4ʹ10ʺ - Lion-O (child)
5ʹ0ʺ - Mumm-Ra (mummy form)
5ʹ1ʺ - Jackalman (measured to top of ears)
5ʹ3ʺ - Monkian
5ʹ7ʺ - Slithe (measured to top of spines)
5ʹ7ʺ - Cheetara
5ʹ8½ʺ - Panthro
5ʹ9ʺ - Tygra
6ʹ0ʺ - Jaga (6ʹ6ʺ to crest of helmet)
6ʹ2ʺ - Lion-O (adult)
7ʹ5½ʺ - Mumm-Ra the Ever-Living (8ʹ2ʺ to crest of helmet)

Though the publication He-Fan mentioned might not be as canon as the show, it's the only clearly-stated source I've heard of on the matter. It conflicts only slightly with the visual evidence I've been working with, and admittedly I don't know for certain that the line over Tygra's head means anything specific. Based on the stat he mentioned, I could scale them all down a bit. (If it's possible to upload images, I'll gladly share the one with the lines I've drawn on it.) What do you think?

Edit: Updated with more accurate measurements!

"vkGX9w8s, post: 103278, member: 25940" said:

In another thread (http://thundercats.org/forums/index.php?threads/big-cheetara.1587/), He-Fan stated that there's a fact file listing Lion-O's height. I was wondering if there are similar details for the other characters, perhaps even including weight as well. I've been working off a model sheet that shows the principal characters -- one that has a line drawn at the top of Tygra's mane, which I presume is meant to indicate the six-foot mark. Based on that, and assuming that the crown of one's head is roughly five inches from the center of the eyes, I've calculated all the heights thus:

4'1" - Snarf (measured to top of ears)
4'4" - WilyKit
4'6" - WilyKat
5'1" - Jackalman (measured to top of ears)
5'1" - Mumm-Ra (mummy form)
5'4" - Monkian
5'7" - Slithe (measured to top of spines)
5'8" - Cheetara
5'9" - Panthro
5'10" - Tygra
6'1" - Jaga (6'6" to crest of helmet)
6'3" - Lion-O
7'6" - Mumm-Ra the Ever-Living (8'2" to crest of helmet)

Though the publication He-Fan mentioned might not be as canon as the show, it's the only clearly-stated source I've heard of on the matter. It conflicts only slightly with the visual evidence I've been working with, and admittedly I don't know for certain that the line over Tygra's head means anything specific. Based on the stat he mentioned, I could scale them all down a bit. (If it's possible to upload images, I'll gladly share the one with the lines I've drawn on it.) What do you think?

Go with what you're feeling. :)

"Daremonger, post: 103282, member: 25241" said:

Go with what you're feeling. :)

What I'm feeling is confusion! ;)

My goal here is to approach this as scientifically as possible, so that the fandom can finally have a solid idea of what's accurate.

Lion-O's six-foot-one stat is an inch or two less than what's shown on the model sheet I've been using. Of course, I must also consider that I don't know the source of the model sheet, or if it's even the final version decided upon by the designers. If the model sheet is indeed correct, then I would assume that it, as the basis of the characters shown in the cartoon, would take canonical precedence over what I'm guessing is an outside publication only tangentially authorized by the franchise.

"vkGX9w8s, post: 103284, member: 25940" said:

What I'm feeling is confusion! ;)

My goal here is to approach this as scientifically as possible, so that the fandom can finally have a solid idea of what's accurate.

Lion-O's six-foot-one stat is an inch or two less than what's shown on the model sheet I've been using. Of course, I must also consider that I don't know the source of the model sheet, or if it's even the final version decided upon by the designers. If the model sheet is indeed correct, then I would assume that it, as the basis of the characters shown in the cartoon, would take canonical precedence over what I'm guessing is an outside publication only tangentially authorized by the franchise.

I support you 100% on your project.

"Daremonger, post: 103282, member: 25241" said:

Go with what you're feeling. :)

"Daremonger, post: 103287, member: 25241" said:

I support you 100% on your project.

I don't want to jump to conclusions here, but are you trying to get snarky with me? o_O What I mean is that both of your replies were a tad vacuous, leading me to suspect the well-wishing might not be sincere. If you don't know of anything that might be helpful to me, you could've just said so outright. :unsure

Jack's 2" shorter than me and I don't know how to feel about that. I always got the impression(not necessarily an accurate impression, just a nagging thought) he was a weedy little 14/15-year-old and this makes that impression all the more solid.

"Daremonger, post: 103282, member: 25241" said:

Go with what you're feeling. :)

"NuudoruNoMasho, post: 103298, member: 25705" said:

Jack's 2" shorter than me and I don't know how to feel about that. I always got the impression(not necessarily an accurate impression, just a nagging thought) he was a weedy little 14/15-year-old and this makes that impression all the more solid.

Did I sign up on "Prank the Newbie Day" or something? I was hoping for some proof as to whether I'm right or wrong, but instead this seems to have turned into an unscientific, politically-correct session of recognizing people's "feelings" about how tall the characters are! :D

"vkGX9w8s, post: 103301, member: 25940" said:

Did I sign up on "Prank the Newbie Day" or something? I was hoping for some proof as to whether I'm right or wrong, but instead this seems to have turned into an unscientific, politically-correct session of recognizing people's "feelings" about how tall the characters are! :D

Honestly, I've never kept score with the characters' heights.

"Daremonger, post: 103302, member: 25241" said:

Honestly, I've never kept score with the characters' heights.

Fair enough. I do like to have tidbits of data like this, though. It's been a bear trying to find "official stats" about the characters, and the few searches that did turn up some kind of results were always wildly-differing guesses based more on personal preferences than on evidence. I think I'll contact the webmaster and submit my measured model sheet, so that there will be at least some easy-to-find reference out there for people to use in wikis and such.

And just in case I came off as rude: I'm not trying to blow in here acting like I know anything special, of course. I've seen some of the talk here, and realize you all have some major investment in watching the series, unlike me. I'm just a casual fan who's looking to solidify a bit of information about the characters I occasionally enjoyed decades ago. :)

"vkGX9w8s, post: 103301, member: 25940" said:

Did I sign up on "Prank the Newbie Day" or something? I was hoping for some proof as to whether I'm right or wrong, but instead this seems to have turned into an unscientific, politically-correct session of recognizing people's "feelings" about how tall the characters are! :D

Numbers don't always make for a riveting conversation. Considering how the series handles "On model" (i.e. The size consistency episode to episode is handled kind of not at all) proof as to whether you are right might be somewhat.... thin. Numerical consistency or not, you do seem to have them fairly well lined up shortest to tallest in what seems to be accurate proportions. I am willing to trust your judgment.

I do find fascination in their heights in proportion to one another. Not one bad guy is taller than any of the big four thundercats (sans mini-mummra, and he grows so I don't say it counts). The good guys are empowered from every angle (I've been around tall people and I've been around short folks, there is a feeling of empowerment/disempowerment.....Especially when in karate class they hoist your tiny self on their shoulders because it's funny). Which is probably why it was inverted in the NS.

"NuudoruNoMasho, post: 103304, member: 25705" said:

... proof as to whether you are right might be somewhat.... thin.

And that's why a more-or-less scientific approach is valuable here. Any franchise can go off the rails as it progresses, so we must set a benchmark by which we can judge through comparison. For me, that benchmark is whatever Tobin (et al) was satisfied with as a final draft. Once that was sent off to the animators, control was lost, and all the designers could hope for was that the resulting cartoon would be as close to their vision as they'd imagined. The inconsistencies in on-screen character size you mentioned were simply the risk they accepted in order to get their stories onto the screen in a timely manner, but that doesn't mean there's no standard for us to refer to now.

Updated with more accurate measurements... I hope. :)

Going off of the UK Star Comics Fact Files (not necessarily canon) they have the following:

2'7ʺ & 63lbs - Snarf
4ʹ2ʺ & 59lbs - WilyKit
4ʹ5ʺ & 66lbs - WilyKat
5ʹ2ʺ & 79lbs - Mumm-Ra Mummy
5ʹ9ʺ &198lbs - Jackalman
5ʹ5ʺ & 300lbs - Slithe
5ʹ7ʺ & 115lbs - Cheetara
5ʹ10ʺ & 210lbs - Panthro
5ʹ11ʺ & 180lbs - Tygra
6ʹ0ʺ & 200lbs - Jaga
6ʹ1ʺ & 235lbs- Lion-O
5'10 & 170lbs - Bengali
7ʹ4ʺ & 300lbs - Mumm-Ra the Ever-Living

This model sheet of Lion-O describes him as: "A 6' 0" body-builder type". (due to poor typing quality, the 0 does look a bit like 9 as well, but I doubt that Lion-O would be that tall!) :)

"NuudoruNoMasho, post: 103304, member: 25705" said:

Numbers don't always make for a riveting conversation. Considering how the series handles "On model" (i.e. The size consistency episode to episode is handled kind of not at all) proof as to whether you are right might be somewhat.... thin. Numerical consistency or not, you do seem to have them fairly well lined up shortest to tallest in what seems to be accurate proportions. I am willing to trust your judgment.

I do find fascination in their heights in proportion to one another. Not one bad guy is taller than any of the big four thundercats (sans mini-mummra, and he grows so I don't say it counts). The good guys are empowered from every angle (I've been around tall people and I've been around short folks, there is a feeling of empowerment/disempowerment.....Especially when in karate class they hoist your tiny self on their shoulders because it's funny). Which is probably why it was inverted in the NS.

I agree 100%.
BTW welcome back. :D

"adssse, post: 103309, member: 25051" said:

Going off of the UK Star Comics Fact Files (not necessarily canon) they have the following:

That's the first list of weights that I've seen. They seem fairly realistic (though calculating for muscle mass, Lion-O would end up slightly stronger than Mumm-Ra -- not sure if it's portrayed that way in the show), and in lieu of anything more official, I'll probably want use them. Height still confuses me, though, leading me to believe these might have been created as another "This sounds about right..." collection of stats rather than basing on anything official. Other than that, this sounds like an excellent addition!

"Wilycub, post: 103310, member: 25043" said:

This model sheet of Lion-O describes him as: "A 6' 0" body-builder type". (due to poor typing quality, the 0 does look a bit like 9 as well, but I doubt that Lion-O would be that tall!)

I guess the question is whether they meant the number literally. If only figurative, I suspect they would have written out "six-foot" without indicating inches at all. Unfortunately, this conflicts visually with the sheet I have (which I've still not figured out how to upload) -- or at least it does if the line over Tygra's head is meant to portray the six-foot mark (I'm hoping to hear back from an artist for an opinion on that). And then there's the question of which image was the latest/final incarnation. It appears yours might be, as I imagine that's some Asian language for the animators.

Any way we look at it, these new details are getting us closer to a settled set of numbers! :)

It appears my searches for stats were unsuccessful mainly because I didn't think to include the term "fact file". Once I did that, I discovered numerous scans. The degree to which they are canon is still a question I have yet to solve, but at least I now possess first-hand evidence of presentation in a large publication. Thanks for putting me on to those! :)

As an aside, being that there were ThunderCats comics published under Marvel, does anyone here know of official FASERIP stats done for the Marvel Super Heroes RPG? I've found a couple of fan-made ones (from the Classic Marvel Forever forum archive, and Screamin' Evel's web site), but nothing yet from Marvel itself.

For viewing pleasure ... (I know it's not 100% accurate, as some of them aren't exactly standing upright, plus the picture is skew ... lol)

I did pretty much the same thing, drawing lines and counting pixels to measure as best as possible to the nearest foot and inch. Ultimately, though, I decided to go with the Fact Files, because of their semi-official nature, and because they don't particularly contradict the portrayals in the show. The only downside is that Cheetara is given the weight of a fashion model despite being just as athletic as the males who have the weight of bodybuilders.

Moving on to other statistics I've been searching for: Does anybody here know if there were Fact Files for the vehicles, too?

Update: Better scans of the production material reveal that Lion-O's height is actually six foot, nine inches. Similarly, the material for Panthro and Cheetara lists their heights as six-two and six-zero, respectively. Unless the characters were scaled down later on, this really shakes up the assumption that they were of typical human height. I've yet to review the episodes showcasing humans such as Hachiman and Safari Joe, but I'm keen to see how tall they look next to the ThunderCats.

On a side note, the Universo Retro company has put out a trading card set, with their own take on the ThunderCats' stats. Their choice of weight for Cheetara, Pumyra, and Mumm-Ra makes more sense than the numbers given in the "Fact File" excerpts from the comics. However, by the same token, I think they dropped the ball by making Lion-O lighter and the Thunderkittens nearly adults.

Here's where I found the aforementioned production materials containing references to height:
https://www.deviantart.com/curious4ever/art/ThunderCats-Lion-O-character-sheet-1-711257814
https://www.deviantart.com/curious4ever/art/ThunderCats-Panthro-model-sheet-716185130
https://www.deviantart.com/curious4ever/art/ThunderCats-Cheetara-model-sheet-2-762080946