The Death Penalty

Just wondeing what everyone's thoughts are on capital punishment? With the excution of Daniel Harlod Rolling this past week I thought this might be an appropriate topic of discussion. Daniel Rolling was a serial killer (known as the Gainesville ripper) that killed and mutilated 5 college students in the early 90's. He has been on death row since then about 12 years.

Is the death penalty an appropriate punishment, and is the amount of time a person spends on death row cruel and inhumane?

The death penalty is one of those things that my opinion goes back and forth on all the time. I personally don't condone the taking of a life for any reason. I look at all life as something precious and sacred as once that is gone that essence can't come back (as the same individual the universe does recycle there energy to make something new). I keep thinking that if I was related to a victim that my thoughts might differ but I hope that doesnt happen. I personally do believe in resitition for the crimes and the punishment should be appropriate to the crime. I think that we should go back to the way prisons used to be before we as a society got soft (cruel and inhumane punishment). Prison should be a dingy place where there are not many luxuries (now this applies to the most heinious of crimes as I also believe in rehabilition). The prisoners especially serial killers should have a bare cell and an hour outside a day for exercise, but tvs, cable etc need to be removed. How is justice served when prisoners live better than some people on the outside. The death penalty is wrong we as human beings have no right to take a life for whatever reason, no matter what atrocities the perpertrator has conspired. We are not god and have no right to play god in order to pretend like we have some kind of power. The bible says only god can reserve judgement (if you believe that sort of thing, which most of America does), punishing someone for a crime is a lot different than rendering judgement by being the executioner. I also think that to allowed to sit on death row for 12 years either due to appeals or the fact that the state can't make up its mind on the death penalty is a very cruel form of torture. To be sentenced to die and not have it be done immediately is wrong, just think the agony that must be going through the prisoner (it would be like sitting at the gullotine and just waiting for them to drop the blade). I'm sure some people revell in the fact that they are on death row that long because they might ultimately feel that the system failed etc. But ultimately it is a very cruel thing. How much time does it take to go out back to the gallows, or get a gun and shot them. All this talk about the death penalty being cruel makes no sense. They are sentenced to die, but we as a comparing society care how it is done. The same thing is done to animals when "we" decided to put them down but not many people are in an uproar about that.

Ultimately I feel that the death penalty is wrong and immoral (yes I know those are both subjective) but the way we are going about it is a disgrace.
Please feel free to comment on any of this. I wrote it pretty late and some of it might not make sense (as I probably could have made a better argument against the death penalty)

The death penalty has been a subject for many many years. One of the most recent cases was I believe was the founder of the Bloods or Crips, Im not sure which gang but his name was something like "Tookie" Williams. He ended up dying by lethal injection I think and although i never knew the whole story of the crime he comitted I truly believed that his life had totally changed, he was even nominated i think for a Pulitzer Prize. I dont agree with the death penalty but rather greatly limit their freedom that they may have inside the prisons

Manny you are correct with the case of Tookie Williams. He was supposedly a reformed member, ex leader of the crips.

Are you saying to limit the amount of freedom that all prisoners have in prison or just that of people on death row. If its the first one I agree, prison needs to be prison and made to be a place that no one wants to come back to.

"matt, post: 11710" said:

Manny you are correct with the case of Tookie Williams. He was supposedly a reformed member, ex leader of the crips.

Are you saying to limit the amount of freedom that all prisoners have in prison or just that of people on death row. If its the first one I agree, prison needs to be prison and made to be a place that no one wants to come back to.

Well like i saaid i dont believe in the death penalty or death row for that matter but to limit to an extreme extent the liberties cons are given in jail. Especially ones that commit the most heinous crimes. You cant isolate someone that robbed a car compared to someone who comitted a massacre so my point being is let the punishment fit the crime and not have the death penalty. Reformed people like Tookie Williams should be given a second chance but then again were do you draw the line. Perhaps give him life on probation would be something to think about, too bad because he is now dead

Manny,
There was no solid evidence that Tookie was reformed. Popular belief was that he was playing "reformed" because he began to fear the reaper. He never would cooperate with the police regarding giving up any information that would lead to putting an end to the Crips.

Personally, I am all for the death penalty. I feel once a person decides to take the life of another person, or commits a heinous crime, they give up their right to humanity.

Waiting on death row is not cruel and unusual punishment IMO. Making a family grieve and suffer the premature loss of a loved one is.

Many times it is the prisoner's own fault that they are not executed in less time due to appeals and delays from the defense. That said, if a criminal is immediately executed for their heinous crime, they do not have enough time to reflect upon what they've done. I think part of the good that waiting on death row does, is that a criminal has time to sit there and ponder and go, "wow, what I did was really ****ed up..."

Think of how many deaths Tookie is personally responsible for. How many young lives have the Crips personally destroyed? How many families were impacted by this? How many lives has the war between the bloods and the crips claimed? I wouldn't mind if we stoned him to death...it still would've been too good a punishment to fit all of the heinous crimes that he was directly or indirectly responsible for. If you read up on Tookie, he was a man without a conscience. He had no problem burying a bullet in the brains of his victims. One of the crimes he was convicted for, he had a convenience store clerk lay on his stomach while Tookie robbed the store and afterwards, he shot the kid to death in the back several times.

The problem with the death penalty is you have to be pretty sure the defendant is 100% guilty as there is no chance for appeal is there after the sentence!

In the UK, we have not had the death penalty since the 1950's I think when a woman was hanged. I believe (but I'm not certain) years later when the re-opened the case due to now having dna technology (something that was unknown of back then) found her innocent I believe and she received a pardon. Though as you'll probably agree that came years too late and was little good to her! :(

But if the evidence is a dead cert and the person is very dangerous then it does make sense, especially if this is person is a murderer capable of killing again.

I just wrote something in the "Criminals" topic that will have some use here.

I believe in "An eye for an eye" and "The punishment should fit the crime". I do agree with the death penalty and I don't find it cruel to have someone waiting 12 years to be executed.

What I think it's cruel is the lives that were taken and the cruelty that was used in some of them. For the animal who committed those crimes, nothing else can be cruel enough. If someone kills others, if he is a serial killer and does it for pleasure, or a robber that didn't want to be recognized and killed the witness, or some heartless that kills a child for nothing, then this person has lost his right to live.

More, I may be called a "sadistic pig", but I do think that "lethal injection" is soft. Once someone does things so cruel, so bad, he cannot go "softly". He must suffer.

In regards to the death penalty, the offenders should be locked in a holding cell with nothing to watch but "My Super Ex Girlfriend" 24/7. They'll be begging to kill themselves in no time saving much needed taxpayer dollars.

Like Flash said on Justice League, "the problem with an eye for an eye is that everyone ends up blind."

When I think of the death penalty, I think back to a very basic and simple lesson I learned very young...

Two wrongs don't make a right.

What I do believe is that we as a country need to care more about making sure everyone get's a good education and equal opportunities, end the cycles of poverty and repression. It might seem like an impossible task, but I do believe that doing so would drastically reduce the number of criminals, not to mention strengthing our society as a whole.... I know, I'm an eternal dreamer, but still.. It would be nice.

I've always been in agreement with the death penalty. I actually felt it needed to be reformed to be quicker rather than wasting money on keeping the person locked up waiting, get it over with.

However, I've never been in trouble with the law for something I've never done. That perspective might change my view. Until then... I will remain *thumbs up* the the death penalty.

I think that the death penalty is ok, when it's used sparingly, meaning only for those for whom rehabilitation is, without a shadow of a doubt per psychologists(or do I mean psychiatrists?), deemed impossible(A parallel with the concept of "Guilty until proven innocent": Rehabilitatable until proven otherwise)....when it's used for revenge or so-called justice or punishment or balance or anything else, it's misused and makes victimizers of the original victims or their families(secondary victims?) except in the above case.

The point of institutional justice in the United States is not to achieve retribution, it's to achieve justice....there's a difference.

*hops down off his soapbox*

I couldn't support the death penalty any more than I already do! In fact, I wish it was like a Roman Colosseum where we could pay an admission to watch two inmates kill one another! Perhaps, if this was a perfect world, it could be this way.

Well, technically, I'm Roman Catholic so I'm supposed to be against the death penalty.....but personally....I say fry their a$$! You kill someone, you should get the death penalty, if you commit a violent crime against a child, you should get the death penalty.

Earlier today I saw a horrible news article about a mother that killed her infant child and killed a fetus she was carrying as well (homemade abortion I guess), threw their chopped up body parts in a cooler. She needs the death penalty for that.

I also saw another article about another woman that called a hospital to say she threw her young children (toddlers) off of a bridge into the river because she couldn't feed them. The coast guard is still combing the river for their bodies. This reminds me of the 1967 song from Bobbie Gentry - "Ode To Billy Joe"

I say instead of taking up tax payer's money and resources to pay for their stay in prison, lawyers etc., get a group of violent prisoners that have no chance of parole....give them hand held blunt weapons (clubs, clubs with spikes, shivs, knives, etc), throw in the prisoner that must be executed, charge admission, let them beat the jerk to death and video tape it. Then show that video tape to criminals that get arrested for their first offense, to show them what the hell will happen to them if they commit violent deadly crimes. You watch the death rate drop over night.

But I have to say, I do like Lord_Rhylin's idea of a colosseum. That would be even more perfect. Almost like the movie "Escape from L.A."

And for violent offenders that don't warrant the death penalty but their actions are pretty sick and pushing it....I have another solution........take a bunch of prisoners that haven't seen a woman in over ten years,...give them Viagra........put the offending prisoner in a dress.............drop him off into a secluded area of the prison with that special group of prisoners, turn off the cameras and send the guards on a coffee break.......

"Shepherd, post: 24145" said:

The point of institutional justice in the United States is not to achieve retribution, it's to achieve justice....there's a difference.

Retribution most certainly plays a role. A convicted criminal's sentencing based on his or her offense/s indicates what type of retribution the state seeks as punishment; which is in turn justice for the victim/s. So while, yes, we don't arbitrarily punish for the sake of punishment, we do factor in the degree and severity of an offense, and try to match the punishment to the crime.

queen lynxana, you really have a vivid imagination as to what to do with prisoners :). It's not really "orthodox" so to say but I kinda have a feeling that in practicality it might have some serious results :)