Super7 Thundercats Ultimate Wave 1 Review

Just thought I would post LioConvoy's review of wave 1 here as an alternative to the ToyBro and Pixel Dan reviews to let people hear the thoughts of a Thundercats fan who actually bought these figures.
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While glowing reviews paid for behind the scenes are not fair, that review isn't fair either. It's hyperbole in the other direction. You can be critical without making a fool of yourself, and that guy just made a fool of himself. A video like that doesn't make anyone want to listen, and that's just the reality of it. Human nature.

That said, it's disappointing the number of small issues we are seeing. Despite that I still think that overall these look good to me. Shall see soon.

Looking at the figures here I'm not seeing much if any of an upgrade to the Matty ones. They've taken an age to come out and I'm only seeing a few accessories I want to switch out for figures I've had for years. Mummra's cape and Lion-O's sword mainly. The packaging is better but that's all about it, and that's if you make sure not to read the bio. For the time they had to get these right and the price point, I want my jaw on the floor. I know more than most the difficulties trying to work with Chinese companies and get what you want without them messing up or screwing you some way, but if the Super7 end product is consistently poorer than their prototype they need to sort their supplier out or use someone else.

I appreciate the brutal honesty that LioConvoy (and the Bird) conveys in that review. I've watched the whole thing and agree that Super7's habit of being late and poor quality control/color palettes are huge handicaps for them. Brian Flynn, Super7's owner, should know better than to allow those issues to take place.

"Cheetoro, post: 131067, member: 26134" said:

While glowing reviews paid for behind the scenes are not fair, that review isn't fair either. It's hyperbole in the other direction. You can be critical without making a fool of yourself, and that guy just made a fool of himself. A video like that doesn't make anyone want to listen, and that's just the reality of it. Human nature.

That said, it's disappointing the number of small issues we are seeing. Despite that I still think that overall these look good to me. Shall see soon.

How is his review unfair or hyperbole in the other direction? He pointed out multiple flaws on a product he bought with his own money and didn't gloss over any flaws like ToyBro.
Using a bird puppet in a video is a lot less foolish than being proven to be doing biased reviews for free products and having tantrums on social media over other peoples reviews. ;)

He's completely over the top especially at the end. I watched the entire video. Positive changes (and there are more than a couple) are glossed over quickly while he can focus on the negative. There are ways to be just as critical without seeming like you prejudged these or that you just have an ax to grind, which is definitely how he comes across.

"Cheetoro, post: 131081, member: 26134" said:

He's completely over the top especially at the end. I watched the entire video. Positive changes (and there are more than a couple) are glossed over quickly while he can focus on the negative. There are ways to be just as critical without seeming like you prejudged these or that you just have an ax to grind, which is definitely how he comes across.

It depends on the reviewers point of view. I would imagine he did not focus too much on the changes as they were not that much for the better. But again everyones on opinion on that will differ.
In my personal opinion the only good change Super7 made was the new sword and a metallic clawshield, but th sword had a poorly painted insignia and lacked paint and while the a metallic smooth clawshield is more accurate it is still largely out of proportion with the same awful engineering as the Mattel clawshield.
Aside from that the figures are worse than the Mattel releases.

"Mark M, post: 131085, member: 5058" said:

Aside from that the figures are worse than the Mattel releases.

LioConvoy’s review is about how he experiences the figures that he’s bought. He has every right to be unhappy if the reissues do not match his expectations. He has many valid points on things that aren’t correct. Is this statement above based on what he is saying or what you are saying; meaning do you own any of these and did you make your judgement on that? If not, I understand that others’ unhappiness may be a reason for disliking it if you don’t own these, but the same argument can be made for liking them the way others like them who owns them. I still haven’t received mine, so I will keep judgement on how much the factory errors bug me. But from what I’ve seen it looks good to me. I’d rather stay away from stating things are worse if I don’t own it and rephrase it as “I read that many others aren’t happy about theirs and consider them worse so that has me concerned”. I’ve read many positive reviews from customers despite the flaws. It’s all in the eyes of the owner I guess. Anyway, that’s how I see it. (Not saying your opinion is wrong though! :thumbsup)

"Sebastiaan, post: 131086, member: 25673" said:

LioConvoy’s review is about how he experiences the figures that he’s bought. He has every right to be unhappy if the reissues do not match his expectations. He has many valid points on things that aren’t correct. Is this statement above based on what he is saying or what you are saying; meaning do you own any of these and did you make your judgement on that? If not, I understand that others’ unhappiness may be a reason for disliking it if you don’t own these, but the same argument can be made for liking them the way others like them who owns them. I still haven’t received mine, so I will keep judgement on how much the factory errors bug me. But from what I’ve seen it looks good to me. I’d rather stay away from stating things are worse if I don’t own it and rephrase it as “I read that many others aren’t happy about theirs and consider them worse so that has me concerned”. I’ve read many positive reviews from customers despite the flaws. It’s all in the eyes of the owner I guess. Anyway, that’s how I see it. (Not saying your opinion is wrong though! :thumbsup)

From the various reviews I have watched and images of the figures, it is my opinion that they have turned out worse than Mattel's figures. ;)
As bad as the Mattel figures were they were not that bad that they had to issue a repair kit. :laugh
You don't have to own something to know it's worse than another product.

"Mark M, post: 131097, member: 5058" said:

From the various reviews I have watched and images of the figures, it is my opinion that they have turned out worse than Mattel's figures. ;)
As bad as the Mattel figures were they were not that bad that they had to issue a repair kit. :laugh
You don't have to own something to know it's worse than another product.

Ok. I understand your viewpoint on this. I don’t necessarily agree with it, but I hear you. You didn’t like the Mattel ones back then except for Panthro, so it makes sense it’s not “your cup of tea” ;)

"Mark M, post: 131085, member: 5058" said:

It depends on the reviewers point of view. I would imagine he did not focus too much on the changes as they were not that much for the better. But again everyones on opinion on that will differ.
In my personal opinion the only good change Super7 made was the new sword and a metallic clawshield, but th sword had a poorly painted insignia and lacked paint and while the a metallic smooth clawshield is more accurate it is still largely out of proportion with the same awful engineering as the Mattel clawshield.
Aside from that the figures are worse than the Mattel releases.

Just curious Mark Do you own Thundercats Ultimates wave one? Do you have them in hand? Because if you don't then you are just posting negative comments on images on the net. Just as Sebastiaan has said You need to have these in hand to form an opinion good or bad. As for Lio convoys review while I understand he purchased his figures and is unhappy with them he can contact Super7 with two Options. 1.) get them replaced and hope the replacements look better. 2.) Tell super7 he's very unhappy with these and the quality and return then for his money back. That aside just because he paid for his figures is no reason to be overly sarcastic in his review or make a veiled threat directed at Brian Flynn in his review. There are lots of reviewers on the net who purchase their figures and point out flaws in a constructive way. Lio Convoys Review was over the top and he fully intended it to be that way. You can defend him all you want but since you felt the need to post the review here Give the members the right to voice their opinions with out you going back and forth with them. I haven't received my figures yet so I will reserve judgment on them until I have them in hand.

"mjw41, post: 131100, member: 27594" said:

Just curious Mark Do you own Thundercats Ultimates wave one? Do you have them in hand? Because if you don't then you are just posting negative comments on images on the net. Just as Sebastiaan has said You need to have these in hand to form an opinion good or bad. As for Lio convoys review while I understand he purchased his figures and is unhappy with them he can contact Super7 with two Options. 1.) get them replaced and hope the replacements look better. 2.) Tell super7 he's very unhappy with these and the quality and return then for his money back. That aside just because he paid for his figures is no reason to be overly sarcastic in his review or make a veiled threat directed at Brian Flynn in his review. There are lots of reviewers on the net who purchase their figures and point out flaws in a constructive way. Lio Convoys Review was over the top and he fully intended it to be that way. You can defend him all you want but since you felt the need to post the review here Give the members the right to voice their opinions with out you going back and forth with them. I haven't received my figures yet so I will reserve judgment on them until I have them in hand.

I don't quite understand you last sentence about giving other memebers the right to voice their opinion. Members have quoted me am I not to reply. I didn't bother reply to Sebastiaan's last comment. I was going to leave it at that yet you quoted me coming to Brian and Super7's defence as usual so I don't know if you expect or want me to reply to you or not, but I will give you a reply.

How do you have to have them in hand to form an opinion on them? Having them in hand isn'y going to change the fact that Jackalman's legs are still assembled wrong, or the bad paint apps on the swords insignia, or alter the colour of Panthro's trunks etc. Isn't tht the whole point of reviews and images to let people make up their own opinion on products.
I am sorry if that offends you or Brian but as I have said based on the reviews and images of the Wave 1 figures my opinion is they are worse than Mattel's figures.

Although regardless of my opinion on the figures I do think it's a pretty classy move on Brian/Super7's part to issue a repair kit to at least try and fix most of the factory faults.

I have no interest or need to defend LioConvoy or anything he says in his videos, it is none of my business. If you or Brian have any issue with anything said in the video take it up with him. I only posted his review here as I think it is a lot more honest than ToyBro's damage control videos.

"Mark M, post: 131101, member: 5058" said:

I don't quite understand you last sentence about giving other memebers the right to voice their opinion. Members have quoted me am I not to reply. I didn't bother reply to Sebastiaan's last comment. I was going to leave it at that yet you quoted me coming to Brian and Super7's defence as usual so I don't know if you expect or want me to reply to you or not, but I will give you a reply.

How do you have to have them in hand to form an opinion on them? Having them in hand isn'y going to change the fact that Jackalman's legs are still assembled wrong, or the bad paint apps on the swords insignia, or alter the colour of Panthro's trunks etc. Isn't tht the whole point of reviews and images to let people make up their own opinion on products.
I am sorry if that offends you or Brian but as I have said based on the reviews and images of the Wave 1 figures my opinion is they are worse than Mattel's figures.

Although regardless of my opinion on the figures I do think it's a pretty classy move on Brian/Super7's part to issue a repair kit to at least try and fix most of the factory faults.

I have no interest or need to defend LioConvoy or anything he says in his videos, it is none of my business. If you or Brian have any issue with anything said in the video take it up with him. I only posted his review here as I think it is a lot more honest than ToyBro's damage control videos.

Brian said in the interview that they always wanted to match the Super7 figures with the Mattel ones and so they used the same factory. He deliberately lied when he said they would change the claw holder. If that was his intention, he shouldn't have shown improved prototypes, especially Lion-O.

We will have a big pin holes and sloppy paint up to wave 3 sadly, after that they will switch factory and won't mind that the new waves don't match the old ones.

I understand that all this was a decision to cut costs, the ideal was that Super7 made figures with aesthetic updates from the wave 1, but they wanted them to coincide with the Mattel figures including the issues.

I’ve known Mark M for many years now; he is an incredible artist and big fan like myself with lots of stories to tell. While we haven’t agreed on several topics, both online and in private discussions, I am happy and confident to tell him respectfully that I don’t agree with him on whatever we may disagree on. It has always been respectful and it’s a nice change to my personal experiences elsewhere where I’ve gone radio silent for most part. The reason I’m mentioning this is that while we are all fans of the line, we will never agree on everything.
( [USER=5058]@Mark M[/USER] this is not to single you out but perhaps a good example to others. )
Mark M prefers a different body sculpt which factually, when physically comparing to the source material, is not the same as what we’re always getting on the MOTUC buck. Me, on the other hand, do not mind that difference. It’s a specific style it is offered in and I like it like that. We’ll never agree on that and that is ok. I think we’re both ok with that - plus it makes for good conversation. I guess what I’m trying to say is I don’t think it is the intention to bad mouth Super7, it is merely one person’s opinion. The same for the titular review. From what I know of LioConvoy (and I don’t think we’ve interacted before but I may be wrong) he is a very knowledgeable guy on all things TC. He knows A LOT about the cartoon etc, much more than many of us. Which stands to reason why he gives the feedback he does; which is correctly based on the source material. I may not agree with how he expresses his opinions, but he has many valid points and those are always welcome.
I agree with Mark M that the review is of course welcome here; everybody’s opinion counts. While I may be more inclined to feel the way mjw41 does on many things, it still makes for great interaction with fellow fans. And from that lots of great ideas are born.

"Baedal, post: 131102, member: 27563" said:

Brian said in the interview that they always wanted to match the Super7 figures with the Mattel ones and so they used the same factory. He deliberately lied when he said they would change the claw holder. If that was his intention, he shouldn't have shown improved prototypes, especially Lion-O.

We will have a big pin holes and sloppy paint up to wave 3 sadly, after that they will switch factory and won't mind that the new waves don't match the old ones.

I understand that all this was a decision to cut costs, the ideal was that Super7 made figures with aesthetic updates from the wave 1, but they wanted them to coincide with the Mattel figures including the issues.

I’d like to clarify some of your interpretations since I spoke to Brian directly.
I doubt that he lied about anything. Their intention was to create the prototypes they showed us, while keeping it the same as the Mattel ones. The pins itself is something that could have been improved on, and while it was their intention, it was not deliberately changed. In comparing the Mattel wave and theirs, this was missed, if that’s the right word. They’ve gone back now to see how to update W2 and so on where possible. So you are not right in saying everything up to W3 will be like that. This was never intentional and the same goes for the belt pin and the other non changes. I get that you are unhappy about this.

I commented elsewhere that I personally display my MOTUC, TMNT & TC figures together from Mattel and S7, and while some have pins and others do not, it doesn’t bug me. I get that it does worry others. But as a collection they look pretty darn good together.

"Sebastiaan, post: 131103, member: 25673" said:

I’ve known Mark M for many years now; he is an incredible artist and big fan like myself with lots of stories to tell. While we haven’t agreed on several topics, both online and in private discussions, I am happy and confident to tell him respectfully that I don’t agree with him on whatever we may disagree on. It has always been respectful and it’s a nice change to my personal experiences elsewhere where I’ve gone radio silent for most part. The reason I’m mentioning this is that while we are all fans of the line, we will never agree on everything.
( [USER=5058]@Mark M[/USER] this is not to single you out but perhaps a good example to others. )
Mark M prefers a different body sculpt which factually, when physically comparing to the source material, is not the same as what we’re always getting on the MOTUC buck. Me, on the other hand, do not mind that difference. It’s a specific style it is offered in and I like it like that. We’ll never agree on that and that is ok. I think we’re both ok with that - plus it makes for good conversation. I guess what I’m trying to say is I don’t think it is the intention to bad mouth Super7, it is merely one person’s opinion. The same for the titular review. From what I know of LioConvoy (and I don’t think we’ve interacted before but I may be wrong) he is a very knowledgeable guy on all things TC. He knows A LOT about the cartoon etc, much more than many of us. Which stands to reason why he gives the feedback he does; which is correctly based on the source material. I may not agree with how he expresses his opinions, but he has many valid points and those are always welcome.
I agree with Mark M that the review is of course welcome here; everybody’s opinion counts. While I may be more inclined to feel the way mjw41 does on many things, it still makes for great interaction with fellow fans. And from that lots of great ideas are born.

Thank you very much for the kind compliments [USER=25673]@Sebastiaan[/USER] . I have also enjoyed oir discussions regardless of having different opinions. :D
I do quite like Super7's retro figures.
Like I said I don't think the Wave 1 figures turned out as good as Mattel's figures. Hopefully the Wave 2 onwards figures turn out better with no faults.

"Mark M, post: 131105, member: 5058" said:

Thank you very much for the kind compliments [USER=25673]@Sebastiaan[/USER] . I have also enjoyed oir discussions regardless of having different opinions. :D
I do quite like Super7's retro figures.
Like I said I don't think the Wave 1 figures turned out as good as Mattel's figures. Hopefully the Wave 2 onwards figures turn out better with no faults.

I’d love to collect that line too. Darn my OCD (and my wallet) just would not allow it!
Trusting W2 will see some great changes. :thumbsup

I received my wave one and they are impressive at first glance. They're good action figures and certainly nothing to disregard. That said, I do see the issues LioConvoy touches on and his criticisms are valid. I don't agree with his general tone concerning and feelings toward Super7. I think Super7 makes some great stuff and I am happy that Thundercats is in their hands. This does not mean Super7 is above criticism, not by a long-shot. I hope they are looking at consumer reactions, bad and good, and taking notes. Personally, I wasn't too hyped for wave one as it offered little that was "new" to me. I have had the Matty figures for years. As of right now, I think the Matty figures remain superior though Super7 did make some nice improvements, particularly with the packaging. Super7 just needs to really tighten up their quality control and the future for the Thundercats waves will be a whole lot brighter.

"Sebastiaan, post: 131104, member: 25673" said:

I’d like to clarify some of your interpretations since I spoke to Brian directly.
I doubt that he lied about anything. Their intention was to create the prototypes they showed us, while keeping it the same as the Mattel ones. The pins itself is something that could have been improved on, and while it was their intention, it was not deliberately changed. In comparing the Mattel wave and theirs, this was missed, if that’s the right word. They’ve gone back now to see how to update W2 and so on where possible. So you are not right in saying everything up to W3 will be like that. This was never intentional and the same goes for the belt pin and the other non changes. I get that you are unhappy about this.

I commented elsewhere that I personally display my MOTUC, TMNT & TC figures together from Mattel and S7, and while some have pins and others do not, it doesn’t bug me. I get that it does worry others. But as a collection they look pretty darn good together.

The claw holder is update?

Super7 only reused the same tooling to cut costs or laziness, matching them with Mattel figures even with their problems is a bad excuse, I don't know who they want to lie to, sorry.

I'm not worried about how they look with my other figures, I wanted the Lion-O figure as they showed it to me in the protototype, with the correct proportions and size, without issues or gaps in the torso, "like any other Classics well done", because there're, but Super7 lost the opportunity to get it right.

If I've to choose a type of pins, I prefer those from the Super7 factory, those from Mattel are bigger and coarser. I think MOTU William Stout, Conan and Toxie figures had a great progress that we lost here, even they giving TMNT much more love than the first wave of ThunderCats.

Excuse me if I make anyone uncomfortable, but I'm terribly disappointed. I can have great figures in the next waves, but knowing that I did not get a first wave or the right Lion-O, takes away all my enthusiasm, even though ThunderCats have always been my favorite.

I sincerely hope they can make versions 2.0.

I have to say after reading the interview I'm not sure I understand this idea of matching the Mattel versions. How does that make any sense when in fact they are doing all of the same characters over again? What is the point of redoing them if you are matching them...we already have them. Only Pumyra (height) and WilyKat (sleeve) had glaring issues I wanted corrected if they were keeping everything else the same, though I will admit a smooth claw shield is nice.

Again, if you are offering all of the figures Mattel did over again, there is no need to match. People can just buy your better versions. This was a huge mistake in philosophy - I'm sure it saved costs though. Based on response to this line and their other products, they would have been fine going all out though on brand new sculpts. I'm sure it seemed risky at the time, but they have become a major player in the market now. If they can get more of their stuff to retail they have nowhere to go but up.