Should Pumyra be given another chance or not?

A lot of us have been throwing around ideas on how to bring Pumyra back to the side of good, but we have to ask, does she deserve that opportunity?

Looking back at the things that Pumyra has done (assaulted Lion-O, get the Cats captured, allowed the Sword of Plundarr to fall into Mumm-Ra's hands, betray the Cats to the undead warlord), the things that she's said (her horrible comments in "The Pit", "Birth of the Blades" and that sentence she said before she attacked Lion-O in "What Lies Above part 2"), i'm really finding it hard to see a reason why Pumyra should be given a second chance. Yeah, i guess you could pull that whole "Mumm-Ra was controlling her the whole time" excuse, but even so, she needs to be held accountable for her actions, and i'm starting to that the Thundercats really should bar her from the group, they do not need someone like her in their band.

What do you think?

"srebak, post: 90360" said:

A lot of us have been throwing around ideas on how to bring Pumyra back to the side of good, but we have to ask, does she deserve that opportunity?

Looking back at the things that Pumyra has done (assaulted Lion-O, get the Cats captured, allowed the Sword of Plundarr to fall into Mumm-Ra's hands, betray the Cats to the undead warlord), the things that she's said (her horrible comments in "The Pit", "Birth of the Blades" and that sentence she said before she attacked Lion-O in "What Lies Above part 2"), i'm really finding it hard to see a reason why Pumyra should be given a second chance. Yeah, i guess you could pull that whole "Mumm-Ra was controlling her the whole time" excuse, but even so, she needs to be held accountable for her actions, and i'm starting to that the Thundercats really should bar her from the group, they do not need someone like her in their band.

What do you think?

the key thing involving Pumyra is that currently, she's a resurrected vengeful spirit being manipulated by Mum-ra. her actions aren't her own if you ask me. characters that are in this type of scenarios usually redeem themselves through some sort of self sacrifice. i believe that to truly redeem her character is to have her give her life/unlife to save the heroes.

I don't think she was ever intended to rejoin the group. I think she'd redeem herself at the end, but ultimately, like Tygra's clan, she would have to accept her fate and fade away.

"balgus82, post: 90365" said:

I don't think she was ever intended to rejoin the group. I think she'd redeem herself at the end, but ultimately, like Tygra's clan, she would have to accept her fate and fade away.

I agree with Balgus.

But a heroic sacrifice would be letting her off way too easy. After everything she's done, i don't think she deserves a closure like that (death is bad, but considering that it means that Pumyra would finally find peace, it seems to merciful). After what Pumyra did, she should be dedicating her life to serving the royals she betrayed and should be dropping down to her knees and begging Lion-O for forgiveness (not that he should give her any)

"srebak, post: 90371" said:

But a heroic sacrifice would be letting her off way too easy. After everything she's done, i don't think she deserves a closure like that (death is bad, but considering that it means that Pumyra would finally find peace, it seems to merciful). After what Pumyra did, she should be dedicating her life to serving the royals she betrayed and should be dropping down to her knees and begging Lion-O for forgiveness (not that he should give her any)

are you forgetting that she had no control over her actions. in fact, this pumyra is nothing but a resurrected spirit of a dead pumyra.

"srebak, post: 90371" said:

But a heroic sacrifice would be letting her off way too easy. After everything she's done, i don't think she deserves a closure like that (death is bad, but considering that it means that Pumyra would finally find peace, it seems to merciful). After what Pumyra did, she should be dedicating her life to serving the royals she betrayed and should be dropping down to her knees and begging Lion-O for forgiveness (not that he should give her any)

Code of Thundera (even if it wasn't really touched upon in the NS):
Truth
Loyalty
Honor
Justice



Where's the Honor and Justice in torturing and enslaving someone for the rest of their life?

Vengeance isn't the ThunderCat way.

"balgus82, post: 90392" said:

Code of Thundera (even if it wasn't really touched upon in the NS):
Truth
Loyalty
Honor
Justice



Where's the Honor and Justice in torturing and enslaving someone for the rest of their life?

Vengeance isn't the ThunderCat way.

Very well put. Simple and to the point.
The Thundercats are not the kind of people srebak would want them to be, or what he implies he wants them to be.
Besides, one of Lion-O's biggest character traits is mercy. That, and I cant imagine him standing around and allowing Pumyra to wallow in self pity around him.
If she was to rejoin the group, her new journey would probably be about earning the trust of the group and forgiving herself for what she did.
I could see the potential for her to rejoin the group, but I'm putting most of my money on heroic sacrifice.

"balgus82, post: 90392" said:

Code of Thundera (even if it wasn't really touched upon in the NS):
Truth
Loyalty
Honor
Justice



Where's the Honor and Justice in torturing and enslaving someone for the rest of their life?

Vengeance isn't the ThunderCat way.

That was so beautiful, Balgus, and that's so true, a follower of The Code wouldn't allow themselves to do that.

I'm with Chique on this one, Lion-O's greatest power is his motivation/proclivity towards understanding and forgiveness.

It's true that Pumyra did betray Lion-O and the others, but I think that she would earn her second chance and redeem herself by some kind of noble sacrifice.

I'm not saying Pummy was lily white, but remember that she was taken not only ahead of her time, but obviously suffered for hours before she finally died of her wounds. By dying such a tragic death, the anger from it sent psychic shockwaves that it drew Mumm-Ra's attention, making him decide to resurrect her from the well of souls because of the strong aura of hate that she sent out. He didn't do that out of the goodness of his heart, and he used Pumyra's anger against Lion-O and the other ThunderCats for his own ends quite well.

Pumyra's anger was misdirected towards Lion-O, but to deny that she had a right to those feelings of anger about her death isn't realistic, it's just that she needed to realize the real culprit behind her demise, Mumm-Ra. I truly believe with all my heart that Pumyra would have realized this at the end, and done somethingto circumvent Mumm-Ra's actions to save the people she had come to know.

The ThunderCats premise has always been that of loyalty, love, forgiveness, and doing the right thing no matter what, even if it is counter to your needs or convenience.

As I said in another post, I truly think that Lion-O would have done nothing less than help Pumyra, forgiven her for her betrayal, and found a way to make her truly mortal again while cleansing her heart of hate and anger, or at least make it so that she could "cross over" as it were with a clean soul.

I think while Pumyra is conflicted in her loyalties, she is ultimately under the control of Mumm-Ra, and her redemption will not come from her own sacrifice, but from that of Lion-O.

In the penultimate battle between Lion-O and Mumm-Ra, Pumyra will be confronted with choosing where her loyalties lie, and her decision will tip the scales in the favor of the one with whom she sides.

In that moment, Lion-O will graciously give Pumyra the Spirit Stone. Newly resurrected and free of Mumm-Ra's control, she will turn on him, and help Lion-O win the battle.

"balgus82, post: 90392" said:

Code of Thundera (even if it wasn't really touched upon in the NS):
Truth
Loyalty
Honor
Justice



Where's the Honor and Justice in torturing and enslaving someone for the rest of their life?

Vengeance isn't the ThunderCat way.

Where is the Honor in knocking your brother into a pit? Where is the Loyalty in frequently undermining his authority as leader?

Also, you claim that Vengeance is not the Thundercat way, yet Panthro was actively trying to take it against Grune

"srebak, post: 90400" said:

Where is the Honor in knocking your brother into a pit? Where is the Loyalty in frequently undermining his authority as leader?

Also, you claim that Vengeance is not the Thundercat way, yet Panthro was actively trying to take it against Grune

Read the quote. He said the code wasn't touched on in the NS.

"srebak, post: 90400" said:

Where is the Honor in knocking your brother into a pit? Where is the Loyalty in frequently undermining his authority as leader?

Also, you claim that Vengeance is not the Thundercat way, yet Panthro was actively trying to take it against Grune

Technically Panthro didn't take vengeance on Grune. Grune was always prepared to make any sacrifice to win, next to Mumm-Ra he was their most deadly enemy and brought about the fall of Thundera. Panthro only did what had to be done to defeat Grune.

"srebak, post: 90400" said:

Where is the Honor in knocking your brother into a pit? Where is the Loyalty in frequently undermining his authority as leader?

Also, you claim that Vengeance is not the Thundercat way, yet Panthro was actively trying to take it against Grune

Everything on the Astral plane was a direct result of Mumm-Ra's influence. They said as much in the episode. And while he may disagree with Lion-O's decisions, he still backs him up when the cards are down.

And no Panthro wasn't actively trying to get vengeance against Grune. Panthro never tried to hunt him down or anything like that. The only times Panthro even fought Grune was either when Grune attacked him, or to save the lives of the Elephants.


Also, what does how Panthro and Tygra acts have to do with Pumyra? If she was ever punished at all, it would be Lion-O's decision on how she'd be punished.

I think that Pumyra needs to have a professional to talk to, preferably a professional that will give her a second chance. :D

"balgus82, post: 90418" said:

Everything on the Astral plane was a direct result of Mumm-Ra's influence. They said as much in the episode. And while he may disagree with Lion-O's decisions, he still backs him up when the cards are down.

And no Panthro wasn't actively trying to get vengeance against Grune. Panthro never tried to hunt him down or anything like that. The only times Panthro even fought Grune was either when Grune attacked him, or to save the lives of the Elephants.


Also, what does how Panthro and Tygra acts have to do with Pumyra? If she was ever punished at all, it would be Lion-O's decision on how she'd be punished.

Actually, Panthro was actively seeking revenge against Grune, whenever he saw the man, he was clearly ready to tear him apart. And in "Into the Astral Plane" Panthro said that he pulled himself out of the pit in Mumm-Ra's pyramid and nearly died in the surrounding desert all just to get to Grune. In fact, in "Old Friends", when Grune said that if it was revenge that Panthro was after, he should come take it, Panthro's next statement was "Gladly", indicating that that's what he was out to get.

"srebak, post: 90422" said:

Actually, Panthro was actively seeking revenge against Grune, whenever he saw the man, he was clearly ready to tear him apart. And in "Into the Astral Plane" Panthro said that he pulled himself out of the pit in Mumm-Ra's pyramid and nearly died in the surrounding desert all just to get to Grune. In fact, in "Old Friends", when Grune said that if it was revenge that Panthro was after, he should come take it, Panthro's next statement was "Gladly", indicating that that's what he was out to get.

So are you saying he shouldn't have wanted to take revenge on Grune?

"srebak, post: 90422" said:

Actually, Panthro was actively seeking revenge against Grune, whenever he saw the man, he was clearly ready to tear him apart. And in "Into the Astral Plane" Panthro said that he pulled himself out of the pit in Mumm-Ra's pyramid and nearly died in the surrounding desert all just to get to Grune. In fact, in "Old Friends", when Grune said that if it was revenge that Panthro was after, he should come take it, Panthro's next statement was "Gladly", indicating that that's what he was out to get.

I think you can't differentiate between revenge and fighting off the bad guys. You're basically trying to say any protagonist that has a goal to defeat an antagonist is a revenge-crazed freak. What was Panthro supposed to do, just stand there and say "Oh, Grune was my friend and now he's evil and helped cause the downfall of my home civilization and made me waste at least 10 years of my life in a desert, but that's okay"?

Once again, you're sympathizing with a character and in return trying to create these gaping flaws in another that really aren't there. It's the same as all your other threads about Pumyra and Tygra. I'm still not sure whether you're trying to keep conversation alive or if you really are this obsessed, but I guess it's mildly entertaining to see what you complain about next.

"hammy0924, post: 90424" said:

I think you can't differentiate between revenge and fighting off the bad guys. You're basically trying to say any protagonist that has a goal to defeat an antagonist is a revenge-crazed freak. What was Panthro supposed to do, just stand there and say "Oh, Grune was my friend and now he's evil and helped cause the downfall of my home civilization and made me waste at least 10 years of my life in a desert, but that's okay"?

Once again, you're sympathizing with a character and in return trying to create these gaping flaws in another that really aren't there. It's the same as all your other threads about Pumyra and Tygra. I'm still not sure whether you're trying to keep conversation alive or if you really are this obsessed, but I guess it's mildly entertaining to see what you complain about next.

Totally agree Hammy.

It shows what a bad state the Thundercats franchise is in when this is all we have to talk about to keep a bit of activity on the forum.

"srebak, post: 90360" said:

A lot of us have been throwing around ideas on how to bring Pumyra back to the side of good, but we have to ask, does she deserve that opportunity?

Looking back at the things that Pumyra has done (assaulted Lion-O, get the Cats captured, allowed the Sword of Plundarr to fall into Mumm-Ra's hands, betray the Cats to the undead warlord), the things that she's said (her horrible comments in "The Pit", "Birth of the Blades" and that sentence she said before she attacked Lion-O in "What Lies Above part 2"), i'm really finding it hard to see a reason why Pumyra should be given a second chance. Yeah, i guess you could pull that whole "Mumm-Ra was controlling her the whole time" excuse, but even so, she needs to be held accountable for her actions, and i'm starting to that the Thundercats really should bar her from the group, they do not need someone like her in their band.

What do you think?

How can somebody really bar a soul from a group? Isn't Pumyra technically dead? If so, I don't think that it's up to any actually living ThunderCats to give her a second chance.