ROCKS 16B: The Real Gostbusters

[LEFT][FONT=Tahoma]WELCOME EVERYBODY TO THE SECOND DISCUSSION IN THE SIXTEENTH STRAND OF "R.O.C.K.S." - REWATCHING OLD CLASSIC KIDS SHOWS! A big thanks to everyone that are joining us through all of this.

We're covering another 80s classic the next few weeks, "The Real Ghostbusters".

This week's episodes, picked jointly by myself, Mark M and Wilycub:

- Night Game
- Beneath These Streets
- Boo-Dunit
- Ragnarok & Roll

Just a friendly reminder to everyone that, whilst fans are obviously welcome to passionately discuss and give their views on these episodes, please remember to keep things on a friendly footing and respect your fellow posters.
Also, please do not post where or how to find the full episode online. And do not post asking others to PM it to you. You are however allowed to watch the show in whatever manner you want.
[/FONT][/LEFT]

A great selection of episodes.

Night Game.
One of the first Ghostbusters episodes I ever saw along with Beneath These Streets.
I rented them from a local video shop in the village then would get the VHS around 91/92 in Woolworths.
I really liked this episode and thought the idea of them playing baseball was pretty cool.
I really liked the design of the umpire and the designs of the spirits in the game.

Beneath These Streets.
As I said this was one of the first episodes I seen.
A really good story.
I really enjoyed Ray having the starring role.
Oddly enough this episode always reminds me of the Filmation Ghostbusters cartoon as on the same day I rented the VHS from the shop in the village I also rented a VHS of the Filmation Ghostbusters cartoon. Something we should probably cover here eventually along with Extreme Ghostbusters.

Boo-Dunit.
Loved this episode.
Like the previous two episodes I had this along with Ragnarok & Roll on a VHS I got at the Sunday market around 94.
I am a big murder mystery fan so this episode being heavily inspired by the Agatha Christie was very enjoyable.
The is a lot of really comical scenes in this movie that would really have worked as a very slapstick spoof movie.
I liked that in this episode Winston get's to be the thinker and main character and his deduction skills are what is needed not Egon, Ray r Peter's scientific knowledge.

Ragnarok & Roll.
What a great episode.
Definitely one of the darker episodes in the series.
The confrontation on the roof top is really reminiscent of the first movie.
DyTillio was a great character and the real star of this episode. I really liked how it was him that helped Jeremy realise the errors of his ways.
J. Michael Strazynski name DyTillo after Larry DiTillio.
This is another episode that really could have worked as a movie.

[USER=5058]@Mark M[/USER] I too still have that exact same VHS of "Night Game & Beneath These Streets"! :)

Night Game
This was the third episode of GB that I saw and absolutely loved it! I liked Winston's passion for the Jaguars, even though they were a terrible team. It was interestingly written in that such a big paranormal event occurs, but it only lasts one night and only one person (other than the Ghostbusters) witnesses it. The rest of the world sleep peacefully, oblivious to what is happening. Like Mark said, the designs of the characters are very good, especially the massive umpire. He was probably the best character in the episode. It's intriguing to see his "neutrality" kinda teeters between good and bad. And his best line, the one that still resonates with me: "But Evil cheats. That's its nature. It does whatever unscrupulous or immoral thing it has to in order to win. That's why we call them Evil. Only Good is not allowed to cheat. If Good adopts the ways of Evil, it becomes Evil. So if Good cheats, Evil automatically wins".

Evil's best pitcher is one scary pachyderm! Another awesome design. And I still get goosebumps when he pitches that last delivery to Winston and he hits a home run (with the Ghostbusters music perfectly set to the action!). Another brilliant thing about this episode is how the Ghostbusters don't really bust any ghosts. It's not just always about going into a situation, proton packs blazing. They assessed the situation and eventually let nature take its course, which sometimes is what we humans should do. We try too hard to control that which is beyond our control.

Beneath These Streets
This was my fourth episode of GB, being together with "Night Game" in the VHS that I have. Another very good story. This time it is Ray who decides to go solo and the rest eventually join in to help. It's also Ray who figures out what is going on. It does seem a bit odd though that such a massive pillar was holding up the entire island of Manhattan and NO ONE knew about it. Not even the city sewerage people? Again, like "Night Game", this is a very "contained" episode in that the events take place within 24 hours and the city people are unaware of what happened (except for the annoying earthquakes of course!). I love Peter's line: "We're professionals, not vigilantes! People pay us to do this! We can't just bust every single ghost in the universe just because they're there!".

Interestingly, this episode has quite a bit of similarity to "Ghostbusters 2" movie (which was released a couple of years later). In both cases there some bright ooze bubbling out of the ground and in both there's a scene where a Ghostbuster is hanging over a sea of this goop.

Boo-Dunit
An episode for Agatha Christie fans! This time again it's Winston who's obsession with the mystery writer and her works helps the team to crack the case. There's a lot more humor on display here than the previous two episodes. The ghost characters are quite funnily designed themselves. Debbie's fiance looks like a cross between Stallone and Schwarzenegger! A fun episode which again relies on the Ghostbusters using their brains rather than brawn to solve the problem. Peter was hilarious in this!

Many of the aspects of this episode really reminded me of the DuckTales episode "Much Ado About Scrooge". In that one too, Scrooge and the boys come across a seemingly haunted castle where they are looking for the unpublished manuscript of William Drakespeare (you know who that is supposed to be inspired from!). But of course, in this one the ghosts weren't really ghosts.

Ragnarok & Roll
It was Mark who suggested this episode to me some months ago and I enjoyed it very much! Compared to the previous three episodes, this one has a much more epic setting, with the fate of the entire world at stake. The designs are also very good, especially that of Jeremy. This is probably the most character driven story we have seen so far. It tries to show how far someone would go for love. The way he uses music to change the world is reminiscent of another Ghostbuster episode "Play Them Ragtime Boos" in which a ghost uses jazz music to turn back time, endangering the space-time contiuum (the thing about which Doc Brown in BTTF said "the consequences could be disastrous!)

Just like "Knock Knock", the Ghostbusters are willing to sacrifice themselves to save the world. Fortunately, it doesn't come to that.

Just finished watching these episodes, all of them for the first time I think. I don't recall seeing any of these as a kid.

Night Game
This was a cool concept, these ghosts rising up every 500yrs to battle it out. Basing it on their surroundings and having it take the form of a baseball game could easily have been a stupid idea, but it worked well here. I like Winston's loyalty to his side, even if they're not very successful. And his home run, with the theme music coming in behind him, you know that's the day saved, this show is very much like Thundercats in that respect - when a particular piece of music comes on, you know the good guys are finally going to win. But it's just as much Egon who saves the day here, by stopping Peter and Ray from cheating. The umpire is indeed a fascinating character (voiced by Maurice LaMarche if my ears don't deceive me), if nobody is neutral, then whose side is he on? And yes, no actual busting of ghosts here, they just have to let them play it out and hope.

Beneath These Streets
This was also the name of the first Turtles episode that I ever recorded on tape! And yes, this episode does have similarities with the second movie. A weird one, probably my least favourite of the bunch, because I wasn't really sure what was going on in it. The pillar and all that - but look, I watched this episode only about an hour or two ago and the actual business of what they were doing at the end to fix the pillar has already evaporated from my memory!

Boo-dunnit
I liked this idea, of the writer "Agatha Grizzly" and her characters all appearing as ghosts. Reading the manuscript of that last unfinished novel to solve the riddle of the ghosts was really good - they had to use their brains for this one. Whether Winston was the right choice to be the thriller fanatic, I'm not sure, given his passion for sports, OK, the two are not mutually exclusive, and there are arguments against all the others - Ray and Peter don't have enough little grey cells, and Egon has too many, if he was the thriller fan he'd have solved it far too quickly. Maybe this role could have gone to Janine? As the receptionist, she'd have a lot of time on her hands and reading would occupy that time without taking her away from the desk. But I'm quibbling. It's the sort of thing I could see working in Scooby-Doo somehow too. Maybe it's just the presence of Frank Welker in both shows, I don't know.

Ragnarok & Roll
Very apocalyptic again, could have been expanded to a full movie. I spotted the Ditillio reference too - I remember seeing the name on the credits of Straczynski's most famous creation, Babylon 5, but forget what his function was exactly. The concept here was very good - how far will a spurned lover go to get revenge? I liked this one.

[USER=25438]@LiamABC[/USER] Janine being the mystery fan is a good idea and I could see it working very well.
I really liked that Winston was a murder mystery fan as I always loved murder mysteries like Murder, She Wrote and Columbo etc so I always really enjoyed this episode.

"LiamABC, post: 124909, member: 25438" said:

I liked this idea, of the writer "Agatha Grizzly" and her characters all appearing as ghosts. Reading the manuscript of that last unfinished novel to solve the riddle of the ghosts was really good - they had to use their brains for this one. Whether Winston was the right choice to be the thriller fanatic, I'm not sure, given his passion for sports, OK, the two are not mutually exclusive, and there are arguments against all the others - Ray and Peter don't have enough little grey cells, and Egon has too many, if he was the thriller fan he'd have solved it far too quickly. Maybe this role could have gone to Janine? As the receptionist, she'd have a lot of time on her hands and reading would occupy that time without taking her away from the desk. But I'm quibbling. It's the sort of thing I could see working in Scooby-Doo somehow too. Maybe it's just the presence of Frank Welker in both shows, I don't know.

Like Mark, I too wholeheartedly agree with your idea that it would have been a much better idea to have Janine be the Grizzly fan. :thumbsup It just seems so obvious and logical and would have been good to see Janine take part in the action. I feel that she never got to be involved as much as she should have, seeing as she can (most of the time) hold her own against ghoulies. She could be the one trying to read the manuscript and solve the problem while the guys contend with the ghosts.

In "Night Game" we already saw that Winston is a sports fanatic, while Ray is more like a child, and obsessed with mainly ghosts and the paranormal. So far of all the episodes that I've seen of the show, I don't recall seeing one where Peter is obsessed with something. But then again, that would go against his care-free, attachment-free nature.

I don't think Peter has any real passions, he's too busy looking after no1. While Egon may be technically the least sociable, his work is his passion, but Peter is the one who could be a total killjoy if he put his mind to it.

Peter is the most vain of the Ghostbusters. He does have a heart though and is caring for people even if it does seem that all he is interested in is himself, women, women and fame.

Another thought on if they'd made Janine the one into thrillers - it would have given the guys reason to drop their jaws at her having the necessary savvy to work out whodunit. And thus it would have made a good "girls can be just as able as boys" episode of the show, equivalent to "Assault On The Rock" in Spiral Zone (which we covered in ROCKS last year), or "To Save A Squire" in King Arthur And The Knights Of Justice. The Legend Of Prince Valiant doesn't really have an episode like that, because Rowanne as one of the main characters is a constant reminder of that, especially with her archery skills.

Peter is kinda like James Bond in that he's usually calm (and cracking jokes) no matter how dire the situation. Egon is more, for lack of a better word, "robotic" in that he isn't guided by feelings or emotions but rather scientific facts and data. So it's unlikely to see Egon jumping out of his chair for anything (except maybe fungus). But if I'm not mistaken, there was one episode in which we get to see Egon's human side in which we learn how he was haunted as a child by the Boogieman. I think Mark can probably remember which episode that was.

"Wilycub, post: 124922, member: 25043" said:

Peter is kinda like James Bond in that he's usually calm (and cracking jokes) no matter how dire the situation. Egon is more, for lack of a better word, "robotic" in that he isn't guided by feelings or emotions but rather scientific facts and data. So it's unlikely to see Egon jumping out of his chair for anything (except maybe fungus). But if I'm not mistaken, there was one episode in which we get to see Egon's human side in which we learn how he was haunted as a child by the Boogieman. I think Mark can probably remember which episode that was.

I believe that episode is "The Boogieman Cometh" and there is another "The Boogeyman Is Back". There is another episode in which one of Egon's relatives (his Uncle I think) is very displeased with him being a Ghostbuster and not a proper scientist. I think it's "Egon's Ghost" or "Egon's Dragon".

Peter is calm because he doesn't really grasp the situation half of the time.

"LiamABC, post: 124926, member: 25438" said:

Peter is calm because he doesn't really grasp the situation half of the time.

Hah! That's true! He may have more scientific knowledge than Winston, but he almost never displays it. That's usually Egon and Ray's job.

Another thing I found interesting about the umpire in "Night Game" is how he actually tempted the GBs to cheat! And like you correctly pointed out, if, according to the umpire's own statement, no one is neutral, then what side is he on? In which case he isn't a good umpire as he is favoring one team to win. ;)

"Mark M, post: 124925, member: 5058" said:

I believe that episode is "The Boogieman Cometh" and there is another "The Boogeyman Is Back". There is another episode in which one of Egon's relatives (his Uncle I think) is very displeased with him being a Ghostbuster and not a proper scientist. I think it's "Egon's Ghost" or "Egon's Dragon".

Ya, I believe those were the ones.

"Wilycub, post: 124927, member: 25043" said:

Hah! That's true! He may have more scientific knowledge than Winston, but he almost never displays it. That's usually Egon and Ray's job.

Another thing I found interesting about the umpire in "Night Game" is how he actually tempted the GBs to cheat! And like you correctly pointed out, if, according to the umpire's own statement, no one is neutral, then what side is he on? In which case he isn't a good umpire as he is favoring one team to win. ;)

Even in the original film he was never that interested in the actual ghost side - the only thing that prompted him to take any kind of interest was the possibility of getting with Dana.

The psychological profile of each ghostbuster is pretty much:

Egon - ghost knowledge, intelligence and understanding. If you could call in one man to bust your ghost, he's the one you'd call
Ray - ghost knowledge and understanding, but no real intelligence
Peter - intelligence on the outside world but no clue about ghosts
Winston - intelligence and understanding, he doesn't have the ghost knowledge but he is accepting of the situation to know that something needs to be done

"LiamABC, post: 124929, member: 25438" said:

Even in the original film he was never that interested in the actual ghost side - the only thing that prompted him to take any kind of interest was the possibility of getting with Dana.

The psychological profile of each ghostbuster is pretty much:

Egon - ghost knowledge, intelligence and understanding. If you could call in one man to bust your ghost, he's the one you'd call
Ray - ghost knowledge and understanding, but no real intelligence
Peter - intelligence on the outside world but no clue about ghosts
Winston - intelligence and understanding, he doesn't have the ghost knowledge but he is accepting of the situation to know that something needs to be done

I would strongly disagree and say you are wrong in saying that Ray has no real inteligence.
Ray is very intelligent but more emotional than Egon.

I may have exaggerated a little, but intelligence is not the same thing as knowledge. Ray has the knowledge, but he doesn't know how to use it so well.

I've always felt that Ray is almost as knowledgeable about the paranormal and their equipment as Egon. But at the same time he has a very child-like fascination with it and so approaches it with more emotion. For him, going after ghosts is like opening presents on Christmas morning! :biggrin And that sometimes leads him to rush headlong into a situation he is not fully equipped to deal with.

Exactly. He has the knowledge but not the mental facilities to use it correctly.

"LiamABC, post: 124934, member: 25438" said:

Exactly. He has the knowledge but not the mental facilities to use it correctly.

In one of next weeks episodes it Rays quick thinking, knowledge and technical know how of the equipment that really helps them on their ghost busting assignment.