Mumm-Ra Prototype Q

I´m a big fan of the tmnt, 2k3 version, the first seasons were really cool, but FF and BTTS were bad.

Anyone have any thoughts on the Mumm-Ra Prototype, ya know, this threads topic?:rolleyes:

"thunderianroyalguard, post: 97566" said:

Anyone have any thoughts on the Mumm-Ra Prototype, ya know, this threads topic?:rolleyes:

Sorry thunderianroyalguard. One discussion led to another and we kind of digressed from the main topic. ;)

I doubt that you will find any info about that prototype Mumm-Ra anywhere on the net and I doubt if any of the good folks here would know much about it either. My suggestion would be to send a PM/email to the guy who currently owns it and ask him/her for more info. Maybe even a picture of the Certificate? Hopefully that should have some useful info. Good luck! :thumbsup:

"Wilycub, post: 97440" said:

Yes, I remember seeing pics of this Mumm-Ra when it was first posted on the now defunct "Thundercats.ws" site. But I never really took that close a look at its back. Your observation is a really nice one "thunderianroyalguard" and it certainly has piqued my curiosity! :)

To the best of my knowledge, hardcopy prototypes almost never have the action lever or the battery contact sculpted in them. The only logical explanation I can think of is what "adssse" suggested. Maybe the makers wanted to see how this new figure would look but were too lazy to re-sculpt the head and torso so they just "customized" a toy's head and torso and added the arms and legs. Still that does seem rather odd considering that they already own all the hardcopies and the master molds. :confused:

Also why is that that the left arm and leg are different colored compared to the right arm and leg? It's almost like only one arm and leg was sculpted and then used to "reproduce" a mirror. Again as far as I know this is not how the TCats LJN toys were made as every limb was sculpted separately.

Another issue with this is that while it does look cool, the figure would never have been able to hold any weapons/accessories. So I seriously doubt that LJN were considering replacing the standard Mumm-Ra with this design, unless it was an alternate sculpt for the Lua Lasher Mumm-Ra.

Actually this post reminds me of a similar question that has been bugging me for a while. Some time ago, a forum member had posted pictures of the prototype of the Red Thundwerings Lion-O which appeared on some catalogs. Here is the thread: http://thundercats.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9020&highlight=lion-o"" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">http://thundercats.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9020&highlight=lion-o
If you look closely, the figure has "slitted eyes" just like the toy. This is something I've never been able to figure out why. As far as I know, no hardcopies/prototypes were ever made with the slit in the eyes. Just like the lever on the back and the contact point, the slits were added during production. I guess these are questions that only an ex-LJN employee can answer. :)

or perhaps...a well versed collector...as the story goes...this was the first "find" by Hollywood heroes down in Florida, it was found with 2 redeyes, several Quickjaws (3 orange, 1 brown, 1 unpainted) Ships, mad bubbler, ect. the point i'm getting at is, everything that was found with this was figures and accessories that WERE scheduled to released in the next wave, a wave that never saw mass production...this was a a Mumm-ra scheduled for later, much later than the cape Mumm-ra which was seen in the early photos of the run. (there is a caped Mumm-ra in a private collection as well, but thats a topic for another day :cool:

"indiabluesplit, post: 97610" said:

or perhaps...a well versed collector...as the story goes...this was the first "find" by Hollywood heroes down in Florida, it was found with 2 redeyes, several Quickjaws (3 orange, 1 brown, 1 unpainted) Ships, mad bubbler, ect. the point i'm getting at is, everything that was found with this was figures and accessories that WERE scheduled to released in the next wave, a wave that never saw mass production...this was a a Mumm-ra scheduled for later, much later than the cape Mumm-ra which was seen in the early photos of the run. (there is a caped Mumm-ra in a private collection as well, but thats a topic for another day :cool:

Wow, that sounds like an incredible find. I would love to know more about who had these when they were found and where!

I have a feeling that you have a wealth of knowledge when it comes to all of this!

here is a good video that was made on the particular find, however the video was made years later for the tv show (think re-creation of the actual find).

http://www.travelchannel.com/video/thundercats-prototype

"indiabluesplit, post: 97622" said:

here is a good video that was made on the particular find, however the video was made years later for the tv show (think re-creation of the actual find).

http://www.travelchannel.com/video/thundercats-prototype

Thanks for the link. It isnt working for me at the moment, but I will give it another try soon.

Hey everyone, it's awesome to sign on and find this thread about my Mumm-ra Prototype! If anyone here has any questions you are always welcome to PM me or just ask something directly in this thread. I don't believe in being secretive with my collection at all and am always happy to get questions!

First off, and I know RoyalGuard said he didn't want to question the authenticity but I want to take a second to remove any doubt on that. This is probably one of the most well authenticated pieces in tcats lol.

1.) The COA is from Jordan at Hollywood Heroes who obtained this (and several other unproduced hardcopies as IndiaBlueSplit explained in this thread) from Jose Longoria who was a Project Manager for thundercats at LJN and designed quickjaws among others.

2.) The UKG authenticated the mumm-ra alternate sculpt which is why it's in the fancy plastic casing. The archive no = TH0000019

3.) Private Conversations with LJN employees - An LJN employee that does not work with Jose Longoria had possession of the leg sculpts which was verified with pictures.

I don't want to harp on this too much, but this is a really neat item and there is no reason to doubt its authenticity.


Ok, now to the questions!

1.) Missing level and the battery contact - I've looked at the back very carefully and I don't think there is any evidence of the battle-matic level ever being there. It looks exactly like my unpainted normal mumm-ra hardcopy back in that are. As Wilycub pointed out, no HCs have the battle matic or battery contact point so the battery contact point on this HC is very unique.

2.) The Battery Contact - How is it attached. From carefully examining that area, it looks like the hole for the battery was put in post resin production. I'm basing this on the small debris around the area (very small) that leads me to believe the space was drilled afterward and a battery contact was thrown in.

3.) Are the hands and legs mirrors of one another - NO! They are extremely similar but they are different. You can tell by the hands. The left hand has the pinky extended while the right one does not. Also, (you can't tell this from the photos) but both hands have a vein popping out the back of the hand and they are designed differently.

4.) Do the arms move 360 instead of the z-axis - WilyCub - YES! And how cool is that?! The arms really are what would have made this figure awesome in my opinion.

5.) What is the black/tan stuff on his shoulder and head? That is remnants from the casting process. I've seen other hardcopies with similar marks. It just means this particular hardcopy wasn't cleaned yet.

6.) Why same head and torso but different legs and arms - My opinion is that they were taking a play from the MOTU handbook and decided to reuse the head and torso because they looked great. If it isn't broke don't fix it! Also, there is no reason to think this is the final approved HC, it may have been an earlier sculpt just to try out the arms and the legs.

7.) Why are the left and right legs/arms different colors (yellow vs offwhite) - The color of the resin depends on several factors but the simplest, most likely answer is that the left side and right side were produced at different studios that used slightly different resin formulas that were then shipped to be combined on the same figure. The other picture I've seen of the legs were dark brown. Hardcopies in tcats range from off-white to white to yellow, cream and dark brown.


8.) Sooo.... what is this thing? - I fully concur with what IndiaBlueSplit already said, and Liardice (former owner with a lot of info on the preproduction) said at a different forum - this mumm-ra sculpt was intended the unproduced series 4 line NOT as an alternative sculpt to the original figure.

Further evidence of this, in my opinion, is that it was found with the rest of the Series 4 unproduced figures that Jose Longoria had. Longoria had: Mad Bubbler, Red Eye, QuickJaws, Cannon Blaster, the Feliner, and this Mumm-ra.

On a more speculative basis, I think this sculpt was intended to be the "Cape Wearing Mumm-ra" from the 1985 catalog. Whether it was made before or after the catalog showed the normal mumm-ra figure wearing the cape I cannot say. I think this for a few reasons:
1.) The same figure + a cape? Come on LJN, kids could do that on their own, they don't need to buy a new figure. I think the catalog pic was a place holder as this sculpt was being designed.
2.) Most conclusively for me, the 360 motion of the arms just screams "I would look super menacing with my arms up and a cape on!" Just like how the Sorceress from MOTU has 360 motion where all the other figures didn't was because she was meant to be positioned with her arms up and her "cape" on display.

I really love this sculpt and it is really the only one of a kind I know of in unproduced tcats figures. All other unproduced figures have at least 3 hardcopies that I know of so this one stands out.

If you have any other questions or anything PM me or reply here. I'd love to know what you guys think!

Best,
E. Phoenix

P.s. Check out my collection thread for more pics. Here's a quick new one in menacing red!

Just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to explain/answer questions on this sculpt. It was a pleasure to read all of this information and is truly fantastic. Congrats on being its proud owner!

Thanks a lot for the wonderful and in-depth explanation "eternian phoenix"! :thumbsup:

Your answers certainly cleared up a lot of the questions bumping around in my head! :) It is a pleasure to know that you are happy and willing to share information about your prototype with other fans here. Some collectors prefer to remain secretive (why? I have no idea!) :)

I can perhaps shed light on why collectors do not share their collections with the general public, it has to do with the general public relentlessly asking if items are for sale, the history of the items, is it real? i bet it's not real!, ect. ect.

I promise you if an item such as this Mumm-Ra was for sale, more than likely it would be a transaction from one collector to another, with out ever being known about by the general public. if you look back through all the old posts, you will see that there have only just been a handful of collectors/ retailers who have offered pre-production item for sale.

as a collector of pre-production items, i feel photos should be shared with the general public, I also know that my humble collection sits in a safety deposit box at my local bank, like i have said before, these are not toys, they are one of a kind pieces of art.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask

Will
Merged Post:
And here is why i believe your figure and the "caped Mumm-Ra" are not one in the same, although i do believe the caped Mumm-Ra was the insperation for your Mumm-Ra.



Notice his right hand, how it is closed to allow the weapon to be held. being as the "caped Mumm-Ra" never made it past the hard copy stage, i do not believe yours was an alternate sculpt of an alternate sculpt (although anything is possible in pre-production) i believe we are right on the money about series 4.

IndianBlueSplit - Wow, you have your protos at the bank! That's intense! Does that include the ones you have on your display shelf in your collection thread or do you keep only certain ones at the bank? If that's too personal it's fine not to answer.

Thanks a lot for posting the image from the catalog. I forgot that the catalog Mumm-ra had 360 motion arms when I posted my explanation! I like your idea that my sculpt was "inspired" by the caped mumm-ra. It does seem like a more refined version of the same concept. The caped mumm-ra and growing sword lion-o were sort of weird ideas. It would have been the 3rd time they tried to sell kids the same darn figure. (original lion-o, thunderwings, then this again?). At least mumm-ra's arms changed.


You're very welcome Adssse and Wilycub! I'm always happy to talk about tcats prototypes!