Movie Club: Star Wars Episode IV A New Hope

WELCOME EVERYBODY TO THE RELAUNCHED DISCUSSION THREAD OF THE NEW MOVIE CLUB, DESIGNED TO RUN PARALLEL WITH R.O.C.K.S.
A big thanks to everyone that are joining us through all of this.

The next few weeks, Movie Club and ROCKS are doing a tie-in. Move Club we're doing the original Star Wars trilogy, ROCKS will be focusing on a different animated Star Wars cartoon each week.

This week we're doing the very first Star Wars film, episode 4, A New Hope.

I understand that there are multiple versions of the original trilogy, due to George Lucas' controversial decision to re-edit them. There is no restriction on which version you watch here. You can watch whichever version of it you choose.

Remember any ideas for films to discuss are most welcome, and should be made on the Movie Club Introduction thread (the sticky one).

Just a friendly reminder to everyone that, whilst fans are obviously welcome to passionately discuss and give their views on these episodes, please remember to keep things on a friendly footing and respect your fellow posters.
Also, please do not post where or how to find the full movie online. And do not post asking others to PM it to you. You are however allowed to watch the movie in whatever manner you want.

Amazing movie. The second Star Wars film I ever seen.

So much thought and creativity was put into this movie. It's easy to see why it became a cinematic icon and why the Star Wars franchise has grown to what it is.

A wonderful adventure story, exciting, interesting likeable characters...it has everything.

There are so many iconic scenes in this movie, like the lightsaber duel, blowing up the death star, jedi mind tricks and the masterpiece of an opening scene with the star destroyer and Darth Vader boarding the ship.
This might be a boring choice but my favourite scene is the part of Luke talking to Obi-Wan and being told about his father, the Clone Wars and getting his father's lightsaber.

What can I say about "Star Wars Ep IV" that hasn't already been said? It is the movie that started it all, and a great one at that!

At its core, it really is a tale of good vs evil. Contrary to what has been said in interviews by various cast and crew, I really think that Lucas made up the stories of the Star Wars movies as he went along. He hadn't plotted out the backgrounds and relations of all the characters when he started making this movie. It is quite obvious when you see the entire series.

Back to this movie, there is just so much great things that eventually went on to become iconic that it is difficult to list them all. The effects, the miniatures, Darth Vader, the characters, the sound effects, the opening crawl, the droids etc etc. But one thing that I must talk about is the music. There is no question that John Williams did phenomenal work on the music. Even today everybody can recognize the music from this movie. I'd say half of the movie's success is due to the music, same with "Jaws", which we discussed earlier. The music actually prevents the movie from becoming a B-grade space flick with weird characters.

However, and this is the thing that most people don't realize, a lot of the credit for the music's success should go to George Lucas. Why you ask? Well because he knew how great the music was and so he gave it the full spotlight in many scenes. It was as if the music was a separate character. In many scenes, Lucas just let the music do the narrating, no dialogues, no sound effects. This is something Sergio Leone used to do in his Spaghetti Westerns a lot. Spielberg too knew the magic of Williams' work and he too let it shine whenever he could.

This is something that many filmmakers of today don't get. They fill their movies with dialogues and loud action in every scene and the music is relegated to the background. So no matter how great the composition may be, people hardly notice it or remember it. Only when fans buy the soundtrack and listen to it do they truly appreciate the music, but not in the movie itself.

I also like how the hero is actually split into two in Luke and Han. Luke is the Jedi who will wield the light saber and get the training, but Han is the leader of sorts, the pilot, the wise guy. Luke was the heart and Han was the brain. This also allowed each character to have his own flaws which could be compensated by the other. In many movies it is just one hero who can do everything. ([USER=5058]@Mark M[/USER] , you know which certain "Star Wars" heroine I am talking about ;)).

[USER=25043]@Wilycub[/USER] I know who you are talking about. LOL.
BTW if you are interested, I am not sure if I am allowed to post a link here, but there are really interesting Star Wars: Making Of...documentaries on YouTube which show every thing from the creation of concept art to designing the wardrobe, arranging the music etc.
In the Making of Episode 3 Revenge of the Sith documentary it shows Lucas telling Williams that he wanted the Duel of the Fates to be played differently, as unlike Episode 1 it wasn't a clash of good and evil, it was more of a tragedy of two former best friends being forced into combat.
But yes I completely agree about the amazing job done with the music.

I completely agree that a lot of the stories of Star Wars were just made up as Lucas went along. I have read and listened to numerous interviews that are very contradictory.
Some claim the story was always about Anakin but there are some that say it was about Mace Windu. Even that Luke's sister was supposed to be a completely different character and they just decided to make Leia also be his sister.

To be honest, while the prequel trilogy has a lot of faults I have really begun to appreciate them more in terms of what they did for expanding the stories of the Star Wars Universe.

I don't think there is any rule against posting links of "Making of" videos from Youtube. But I have seen many of them already. :) The model-making and shooting is definitely my favorite bits from those documentaries. I remember in one of them, the model maker says that the movie hinged on the opening shot. If the audience did not buy that shot of the large spaceship emerging onto the screen, then they had failed big time. Fortunately, it ended up being one of the greatest shots in the film! :biggrin

Very true about the prequel. Lucas and co. really expanded the Star Wars universe in a big way. The only problem was, they picked the wrong things to showcase in the films, as was made evident by the "Clone Wars" TV series and the numerous books that they have made.

"Wilycub, post: 120970, member: 25043" said:

I don't think there is any rule against posting links of "Making of" videos from Youtube. But I have seen many of them already. :) The model-making and shooting is definitely my favorite bits from those documentaries. I remember in one of them, the model maker says that the movie hinged on the opening shot. If the audience did not buy that shot of the large spaceship emerging onto the screen, then they had failed big time. Fortunately, it ended up being one of the greatest shots in the film! :biggrin

Very true about the prequel. Lucas and co. really expanded the Star Wars universe in a big way. The only problem was, they picked the wrong things to showcase in the films, as was made evident by the "Clone Wars" TV series and the numerous books that they have made.

I wasn't sure since the documentaries are extra from the DVD releases.

If you thought what they showed in the 2003 Clone Wars was good you really should check out the 2008/2009 series which lasted for 6 seasons. I have not seen all of it yet, but what I have seen has really impressed me. It's shows and explores so much of the Star Wars universe. Especially the Jedi and Sith. It even shows a lot about the Mandalorians (Jango and Boba). It also expands a lot on Darth Maul and makes him a really interesting character. I know what you are thinking he was killed at the end of The Phantom Menace...spoiler alert, he survived.
Following on from Clone Wars it had a continuation with a sequel series called rebels in the same style with various actors reprising their roles etc. I have seen all of Rebels and the three seasons are excellent and the final fourth season looks to be amazing.

A New Hope has aged really well for a 40 year old movie. The only scene I would say is a bit dated looking is the lightsaber duel between Vader and Kenobi. I know this is the first one and the various equipment they used to film that scene. But it is rather dull compared tot he duels in all the other movies.

Speaking of lightsaber duels. [USER=25043]@Wilycub[/USER] and [USER=25438]@LiamABC[/USER] in the Clone Wars 2003 cartoon does the location of Anakin and Asajj's duel not look familiar to you?

I've just finished watching this film again. It's been a few years since I last saw the original trilogy - my mum was still alive, I know that much. And, in a word, wow!

As a long-time Star Trek fan, I can see the influence this movie had on its "rival" franchise when it finally got a feature film. The exterior shots of the ships, the visual effects, the music, all that was a huge influence. You listen to the title theme to the first Trek film (also reused for the fifth film and The Next Generation series), and yes, you can tell the influence John Williams had on Jerry Goldsmith. Of course, the original Star Trek series came first, and I've said before how that had an influence on John Williams' compositions!

Actually, Star Trek and Star Wars have been influencing each other a lot over the years. When Luke and Obi-Wan go to hire a ship and meet Han and Chewie, there's a scene from The Search For Spock a few years later where Dr McCoy is in a bar trying to hire a ship, clearly influenced by this, although not as effective. But I digress.

I think if they'd had the budget and technology back in the 1960s, a lot of the action side of this would have happened in Star Trek - its influence can be seen in all elements of this film apart from the story, which is more Alfred Hitchcock in space. Luke Skywalker is like Cary Grant in North By Northwest, or James Stewart in The Man Who Knew Too Much, or many others. He's an ordinary guy who gets caught up in this extraordinary situation.

Or maybe not so ordinary. I remember in episode 1 of the prequels, Qui-Gon talking about a Jedi of exceptionally strong force who would bring balance to the universe. He thought he'd found that someone in Anakin, but he was a generation out. Luke was the prophesied hero he really meant.

[USER=25043]@Wilycub[/USER] I agree about Lucas making it up as he went along a bit in the early days. Leia talking about her father on Alderan, well, OK, so she doesn't know who her real father is any more than Luke knows his at this point - and don't get me started on that kiss! (Actually, was that toned down in a subsequent edit? The version I just saw, I'm sure she didn't kiss him as enthusiastically as I remembered!)

I also agree with you about how the hero's job is split between Luke and Han. Watching it now, Han Solo actually reminds me of Humphrey Bogart's character in Casablanca. He's crusty on the outside but his heart's in the right place and he'll do right in the end. Luke on the other hand is as I've already said the "religious saviour" figure, he's Arthur to Han's Lancelot, making Obi-Wan the Merlin character here. (Actually, Luke and Obi-Wan are a bit like Lion-O and Jaga too!)

Also, yes, the music by John Williams is indeed almost a character in its own right. We all know the main title theme, and we all know the main villain theme (although I don't think I actually heard that cue in this film, correct me if I'm wrong!), they are that iconic, like those famous bits of music from Jaws, Ghostbusters, and even Psycho (there's the Hitchcock influence again!). Modern filmmakers have forgotten that movies are not just meant to be eye-candy. There are other ways to tell a story. That was one of the best things about the original Thundercats, you could follow the plot from the incidental music! Sure, the Thundertank was cool, but it wouldn't have been a tenth as cool without THAT music it had.

What struck me here was the pace and plotting of the story. We briefly see Princess Leia in the opening scene, giving her message to R2D2, and then that's it for a long time. We follow the two Droids for the first 15min, until Luke makes his first appearance. Obi-Wan appears soon after, but it's not until about 45min that Han and Chewie appear, and about another half hour after that before the Princess makes her first "proper" appearance, as opposed to hiding in the shadows or a projection from R2D2. And it's not until the last half hour that we learn fully what's going on. The slow reveal is a tricky thing to pull off. But it's done well here. We see Leia programming R2D2 at the start, we follow him and C3P0 across the planet, we know they have significance, but we don't know what. And that's why it works. We know that the characters we're following are important (or at least one of them is!), but we don't know why. If we didn't know they had importance to the initial events, it wouldn't work. We'd just frown and think, "what's going on?" and possibly lose interest. We'd certainly be too confused to fully appreciate it. Alistair MacLean's book "Fear Is The Key" (and its movie adaption) has that problem in some ways, we have this scene at the start and then what follows doesn't seem to have any kind of connection to it until the reveal happens right in the last chapter or so. But here, it's done magnificently. We learn why Darth Vader & co. were after R2D2, and the information is put to good use.

Of course, the other thing that struck me, and wouldn't have struck me until 5mths ago anyway, was the fact that that first paragraph is a direct allusion to the events of Rogue One. That prequel adventure has just happened, and leads directly into this one. Seamlessly. Very well done.

All in all, I am struggling to find anything even remotely bad about this film. So I'll give up the struggle and say five stars, without a doubt!

"LiamABC, post: 120976, member: 25438" said:

Or maybe not so ordinary. I remember in episode 1 of the prequels, Qui-Gon talking about a Jedi of exceptionally strong force who would bring balance to the universe. He thought he'd found that someone in Anakin, but he was a generation out. Luke was the prophesied hero he really meant.

To quote Ob-Wan it depends on the person's ''point of view''. It was still Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader who defeated the Emperor/Chancellor Palpatine/Sith Lord Darth Sidious, so technically Qui-Gon's prophecy was true.

It's a shame some of the deleted scenes didn't make it into the final cut of the movie.
I can understand why they cut the scene of Luke watching a distant space battle on his binoculars type of device as it doesn't really add much to the plot.
The scene with Biggs Darklighter talking to Luke in town and telling him how he was leaving the imperial Alliance to join the Rebellion would have been interesting for when they meet again later in the movie before the Battle of Yavin.

Fun little facts.
Since 1977-present every one of the main cast has been made in ever outfit/slight variation on each out fit they appeared in on screen, regardless of how brief....even the deleted scenes!
Almost every character in the film, human, alien and droid. Including the vast majority seen in the cantina.

BTW [USER=25043]@Wilycub[/USER] and [USER=25438]@LiamABC[/USER] it's the Yavin Temple in ANH that Anakin fought Asajj.

Actually I have just remembered one little nitpicky detail wrong with this.

When the Death Star destroys Alderan, and later when it is itself destroyed, the shockwaves are two-dimensional. Shouldn't the force of those explosions travel in all directions?

"LiamABC, post: 120979, member: 25438" said:

Actually I have just remembered one little nitpicky detail wrong with this.

When the Death Star destroys Alderan, and later when it is itself destroyed, the shockwaves are two-dimensional. Shouldn't the force of those explosions travel in all directions?

Another one of the many changes/alterations Lucas made to the original. I recall going to the cinema to see the 1997 Special Edition release of A New Hope when I was 12 and I remember mentioning that the only differences I noticed was the added scene with Jabba, that shooting incident with Han and Greedo, and the different explosions.
I recall being really annoyed at this. I had only seen A New Hope for the first in late November 1995 when the did the digitally re-mastered videos in the early 90's. With all the hype surrounding the Special Edition re-releases I was expecting a lot of changes and loads more new scenes included. After seeing how some what pointless and minor these changes were I had no interest in seeing the special editions of The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi in the cinema. I actually only ended up getting the special editions on VHS as I found them really cheap on sale in Tesco a couple years later in a January Sale.
Thankfully my two disc editions of the original trilogy DVDs also include the original theatrical releases on the second disc.

I am a HUGE Star Wars fan, and have been ever since I was little kid. One of my earliest memories is of my parents taking me to see Star Wars: A New Hope in the theater, back in May of 1977. I was 6 years old at the time. After my first viewing of the film, I was hooked.

This first film has so many great elements that it's hard to list them all. I like the mythology of the "hero's journey" in the film re: Luke's transformation from simple moisture farmer to the hero who blew up the Death Star; a seemingly frail old recluse/hermit (Obi-wan) being much more than meets the eye; a world-weary adventurer (Han Solo) who has a heart behind the gruff exterior; two bickering robots that are actually more human in many ways then their human "masters" (C3-PO & R2-D2); an iconic masked villain (Darth Vader) that has one of the coolest appearances & voices in any film, ever; a furry creature that reminded one of a loyal dog, but much more threatening/imposing (Chewbacca); a beautiful & strong-willed Princess with great hair-buns (Princess Leia); technology that was obviously used/dirty, which added to the realism of the film; very functional but unique clothing that had a sci-fi "vibe" but at the same time seemed like clothing that you could find on Earth, i.e. Luke & Han's outfits, the gray uniforms of the Imperial officers, etc.

My favorite scenes included:

-The beginning sequence when the HUGE Star Destroyer went across the screen, obviously dwarfing the much smaller Rebel Blockade Runner. This was followed by the Rebels fighting the white-armored Stormtroopers, and this was immediately followed by the armored Darth Vader's first appearance - one of the most - if not THE most - iconic bad guys in cinema.

-The "Creature cantina" scene - really enjoyed all of the weird, bizarre aliens here - very iconic scene - these characters are very memorable, and some of my favorite action figures were of these guys, i.e. Greedo, Hammerhead, Snaggletooth, and Walrus Man. I also found the gruff bartender "Wuher" amusing, and the blink & you'll miss them "Tonnika Sisters" (the twins in the blue/green outfits) were cool as well. And, even though I've seen hundreds of films over the years, this cantina scene remains as my favorite scene/sequence in not only any of the Star Wars films, but any film ever - period.

-The final attack on the Death star by the X-wings; great sequence that was inspired by footage of WW II aerial dogfights. This entire sequence was improved/enhanced when the films were re-released to theaters in 1997, for the Special Editions.

I feel that the film resonates with both kids & adults since the themes of good vs. evil, adventure, and friendship are universal.

It's also interesting that SW wasn't just a hit in the U.S., but all over the world. I know that it's also hugely popular in Europe, Japan, and many other areas.

Note that there are actually four versions of Star Wars: A New hope & the original two sequels (ESB & ROTJ):

-1977, 1980, and 1983 Original Original Trilogy - or OOT, for short - not available on DVD/Blu-ray

-1997 Special Editions - not available on DVD/Blu-ray

-2004 DVD's

-2011 Blu-rays

Even though I'm now in my late 40's, I'm still a Star Wars fan, and still keep up with the newer films - though I don't see them in the theater as much, but typically will wait for the DVD/Blu-ray.

I found out today that John Wayne is technically in A New Hope. His voice was used for Garindan (the spy on Tattooine) but his voice is digitally altered so much to sound alien there is no way to tell that it is him.

"Mark M, post: 125802, member: 5058" said:

I found out today that John Wayne is technically in A New Hope. His voice was used for Garindan (the spy on Tattooine) but his voice is digitally altered so much to sound alien there is no way to tell that it is him.

Wow! I didn't know that (not that I'm an expert on Star Wars either way! :biggrin). Thanks for sharing that bit of trivia, Mark.

I actually just found out a few weeks ago that Boba Fett was played by Jeremy Bulloch, one of Cliff Richards friends in "Summer Holiday".

"Wilycub, post: 125807, member: 25043" said:

Wow! I didn't know that (not that I'm an expert on Star Wars either way! :biggrin). Thanks for sharing that bit of trivia, Mark.

I actually just found out a few weeks ago that Boba Fett was played by Jeremy Bulloch, one of Cliff Richards friends in "Summer Holiday".

I knew Jeremy Bulloch was the original Boba Fett but I wasn't sure of any other movies he acted in.

Jeremy Bulloch is probably best known for his roles as the iconic Bounty Hunter Boba Fett in ESB & ROTJ - though I don't think he supplied the original voice in ESB, which was changed anyway for the DVD's. The character didn't speak in ROTJ (other than to scream when he was dragged into the Sarlaac pit), and I think that was a dubbed voice-over as well.

Interestingly enough, Bulloch ALSO played one of the Imperial Officers in ESB; he was the blonde one who grabbed Leia on Cloud City as she warned Luke about the trap he was walking into.

Bulloch has been in a lot of other films over the years as well. IMHO, one of the most memorable films I've seen him in was Hoffman (1970), starring Peter Sellers - where he had a small role. The film was very disturbing - Sellers played a creepy guy who was trying to convince/blackmail an attractive young woman to leave her boyfriend (Bulloch) for him. I'm a huge Sellers fan (and not only his Pink Panther roles) & to me this film just emphasized the range of his acting - i.e., he could do a lot more than just comedy. Being there (1979) is another drama he did a great job in - but, I digress.

"The Drifter, post: 125825, member: 26435" said:

Jeremy Bulloch is probably best known for his roles as the iconic Bounty Hunter Boba Fett in ESB & ROTJ - though I don't think he supplied the original voice in ESB, which was changed anyway for the DVD's. The character didn't speak in ROTJ (other than to scream when he was dragged into the Sarlaac pit), and I think that was a dubbed voice-over as well.

Interestingly enough, Bulloch ALSO played one of the Imperial Officers in ESB; he was the blonde one who grabbed Leia on Cloud City as she warned Luke about the trap he was walking into.

Bulloch has been in a lot of other films over the years as well. IMHO, one of the most memorable films I've seen him in was Hoffman (1970), starring Peter Sellers. The film was very disturbing - Sellers played a creepy guy who was trying to convince/blackmail an attractive young woman to leave her boyfriend (Bulloch) for him. I'm a huge Sellers fan (and not only his Pink Panther roles) & to me this film just emphasized the range of his acting - i.e., he could do a lot more than just comedy. Being there (1979) is another drama he did a great job in - but, I digress.

I like Peter Sellers too. He first came to prominence as Bluebottle, Henry Crun, Hercules Grytpype-Thynne, Major Bloodnok and various other characters on classic radio comedy The Goon Show in the 1950s, alongside Spike Milligan (who wrote it) and Harry Secombe. He was also a huge influence on Robin Williams. I remember watching Williams on Parkinson back in about 2002, I could see the influence from Peter Sellers before he even sat down.

"The Drifter, post: 123592, member: 26435" said:

Note that there are actually four versions of Star Wars: A New hope & the original two sequels (ESB & ROTJ):
-1977, 1980, and 1983 Original Original Trilogy - or OOT, for short - not available on DVD/Blu-ray

-1997 Special Editions - not available on DVD/Blu-ray

-2004 DVD's

-2011 Blu-rays

Lets not forget that there were changes being made to this movie between 1977 and 1981, when they added "A New Hope" to the title, so even more than 4 versions. Even the GOUT (George's Original Unaltered Trilogy) that was released on DVD as a special feature with the crappy 2004 DVD's, is still not the proper original version.