Mature Talkback Topics

I guess with this being episode 10, we have seen 220 minutes of Thundercats, about 3.6 hours, give or take. Comparing that time with a movie, like say, Lord of the Rings, or any Harry Potter entry, I am afraid that content has been rather thin overall for the time spent. This episode had way too much filler. I did not mind the musical interlude as that foreshadowed the ending. Also, these cats seem way too happy after everything that has happened, especially with the joy riding scene. Reminded me too much of *shudder* George Lucas' race scene in the PM (?).

Some major league angst about the fact that, perhaps, everyone is dead and gone in their kingdom (?) might be nice. I also felt the ending was way too abrupt. If this was intended as a two part episode, it should have been listed as such.

My usual complaints about sexism still hold.

Yeah, I know they supposedly have 52 episodes to play with, but structure
plotting, and pacing still seem way off to me. Just can get that warm and furry glow. :(

Oh, BTW, wasn't there that big o' rock giant causing trouble during a thunderstorm in the original series? Wasn't it when the Thunderkittens were locked in the suspension capsules? And what about the Medusa mask mountain thingie. Seem rock folks are a tradition of sorts in the series;)

MGP

"Nine Tiger, post: 57792" said:

I guess with this being episode 10, we have seen 220 minutes of Thundercats, about 3.6 hours, give or take. Comparing that time with a movie, like say, Lord of the Rings, or any Harry Potter entry, I am afraid that content has been rather thin overall for the time spent. This episode had way too much filler. I did not mind the musical interlude as that foreshadowed the ending. Also, these cats seem way too happy after everything that has happened, especially with the joy riding scene. Reminded me too much of *shudder* George Lucas' race scene in the PM (?).

Some major league angst about the fact that, perhaps, everyone is dead and gone in their kingdom (?) might be nice. I also felt the ending was way too abrupt. If this was intended as a two part episode, it should have been listed as such.

My usual complaints about sexism still hold.

Yeah, I know they supposedly have 52 episodes to play with, but structure
plotting, and pacing still seem way off to me. Just can get that warm and furry glow. :(

Oh, BTW, wasn't there that big o' rock giant causing trouble during a thunderstorm in the original series? Wasn't it when the Thunderkittens were locked in the suspension capsules? And what about the Medusa mask mountain thingie. Seem rock folks are a tradition of sorts in the series;)

MGP

All due respect, Marianne, I think you're comparing apples to oranges here. You want to make comparisons to the LOTR or HP movies, yet those were adaptations of books, and those books had much more going on in terms of plot and character development. In fact, one of the major gripes I've always had with the HP movies was that they always felt rushed to me, as they left out a lot of things. The only one that I thought were good adaptations were Chamber of Secrets, Goblet of Fire and Deathly Hallows. CoS though had the benefit of being one of the shortest books in the series, so it was easier to adapt. And Deathly Hallows if only because they had the benefit of spreading it out over two movies. But even then they had to leave things out.

Personally, I've always believed the HP series would have been better had they done it as a series of TV miniseries (preferably animated), rather than as movies, with each book being done as a series of two-hour movies spread out over the course of a week. Maybe they can take that approach next time when someone decides to re-make it.

As to the LOTR books, I can't say much about those as I've never read them and never will. I tried, and I just found them too ponderous. I'll just pop in my Blu-Rays of the extended versions and experience the story that way.

Are you saying that you'd rather have the Thundercats just mope around constantly, bemoaning how they've lost their home? That may be more realistic, but it doesn't make the show fun, and in fact it would make it downright depressing. That's the same problem I had with the new BSG, in fact. Ron Moore had the exact same issue, as he thought the original was a bit too lighthearted for a show whose premise involved the total destruction of a civilization, and thought it would be better to make the rest of the show darker and grittier. On paper it sounded like a nice idea, but in practice I found his re-imagining to be extremely depressing and downbeat....to the point where I wanted to slit my wrists after watching an episode!

Also, do you really need them constantly reminding the viewers of this? It would feel forced to have Lion-O just randomly going, "Oh, I miss Thundera. Oh, I wish my dad was here." etc. Again, too depressing. And while I do appreciate the more serious and slightly darker tone this new series is taking, I like that it doesn't get so dark that it overwhelms the sense of epic adventure which is what ThunderCats fundamentally should be all about.

And again, I didn't have a problem at all with the racing scene. For the record, I actually am one of the few it seems who liked the SW prequels in spite of whatever flaws they had.

As for sexism, well, you see what you see. I see something different. I have no problem with it. You seem to be coming from the Dworkin/Steinem side of feminsim vis a vis women's sexuality, while I've always espoused the Paglia/Dodson/Bright/Taormino perspective.

As for the pacing of the episodes, Balgus' explanation sounds pretty plausible. Hopefully now that the series has proven successful and the showrunners can convince the Powers That Be to trust them with their own vision, that the show will become more serialized next season.

You keep comparing the new show with the old one. Not exactly fair, IMO. Again, apples and oranges.

"Lord Slithor, post: 57827" said:

Are you saying that you'd rather have the Thundercats just mope around constantly, bemoaning how they've lost their home?

As for sexism, well, you see what you see. I see something different. I have no problem with it. You seem to be coming from the Dworkin/Steinem side of feminsim vis a vis women's sexuality, while I've always espoused the Paglia/Dodson/Bright/Taormino perspective.

As for the pacing of the episodes, Balgus' explanation sounds pretty plausible. Hopefully now that the series has proven successful and the showrunners can convince the Powers That Be to trust them with their own vision, that the show will become more serialized next season.

You keep comparing the new show with the old one. Not exactly fair, IMO. Again, apples and oranges.

I think it all comes down to balance, and this is a quality I find lacking in this series so far, especially after 10 episodes. Balgus' explanation does shed some light on my sense that something was amiss.

As for women's sexuality and the effect of gender on her life, that is something each woman figures out for herself. I don't place myself in camps. But I do remember the day when a professor of microbiology told me a woman could not be a scientist because she was not strong enough to move a cylinder of liquid nitrogen by herself.

In this last episode, the only female among the elephant folk was the one we saw, in a pink garment I might add, shielding a baby elephant. There was not a single female elephant in the mediation circle. Perhaps they have their own circle, we don't know. But this type of subtle sexism is rampant in every day life.

MGP

"Nine Tiger, post: 57845" said:

I think it all comes down to balance, and this is a quality I find lacking in this series so far, especially after 10 episodes. Balgus' explanation does shed some light on my sense that something was amiss.

As for women's sexuality and the effect of gender on her life, that is something each woman figures out for herself. I don't place myself in camps. But I do remember the day when a professor of microbiology told me a woman could not be a scientist because she was not strong enough to move a cylinder of liquid nitrogen by herself.

In this last episode, the only female among the elephant folk was the one we saw, in a pink garment I might add, shielding a baby elephant. There was not a single female elephant in the mediation circle. Perhaps they have their own circle, we don't know. But this type of subtle sexism is rampant in every day life.



MGP

Wow. Hope that doesn't stop me. Funny, my dentist says shes unable to pull teeth because she's a girl ( I inferred she was talking about the typical lack of upper body strength in women) but she seems to be doing fine (:

I see what your talking about, and it does suck. In a perfect world it would be 50/50 and every ethnicity would have a upstanding heroic character to look up to, but this world sucks. Women are not the target audience. Their not trying to sell to women/girl, not in the same way they are boys/men. The number of little girls lining up to buy Cheetara dolls, pales in comparison with the amount lining up to purchase baby alive. Hey, all we can do is hope for a change. I watched just about every cartoon Wonder Woman appearance with my nieces a while back, maybe it set in. Maybe they wont be afraid to join the "boys club". Whatever makes them happy.

Its does pose a question though. What made them decide to draw Cheetara the way they did? I agree, she is a runner and loose baggy clothing or heavy armor would only slow her down. But the low cut shirt? The dangerously low pants? Those seem highly impractical . Im not inferring anything about her character, she is after all, fictional. It would speak volumes about the character designer before it ever got to Cheetara.

Im not saying their sexist. Do I think they have the highest opinion of those their selling to ?
maybe, maybe not.

Lets just hope she gets a good back story and development before this shindig is up. Something that says Cheetara is a necessary and valuable component to this story. Not just a " generic wisdom speaking pole with boobs", or god know what else shes been called because of her lack of development.

"So why do you write these strong female characters?"
-Because you're still asking me that question ( Joss Whendon)

If I'm knocked out in a burning building, I want the biggest strongest firefighter to grab me and haul my ass out of there. Some large burly dude, not some small chick named Tiffany that got on the force through some kind of affirmative action type thing.

By that same token, when I'm at Hooters I dont want some guy named Bruce wearing cheek shorts and serving me wings and beer.

Like it or not, that's just the way some things need to be.

Some of the topics being discussed in the Talkback threads are getting a little on the mature side. Please keep the mature topics here in the Great Void. Some of the existing posts may be moved over here shortly.

"chique, post: 57847" said:

Wow. Hope that doesn't stop me. Funny, my dentist says shes unable to pull teeth because she's a girl ( I inferred she was talking about the typical lack of upper body strength in women) but she seems to be doing fine (:

I see what your talking about, and it does suck. In a perfect world it would be 50/50 and every ethnicity would have a upstanding heroic character to look up to, but this world sucks. Women are not the target audience. Their not trying to sell to women/girl, not in the same way they are boys/men. The number of little girls lining up to buy Cheetara dolls, pales in comparison with the amount lining up to purchase baby alive. Hey, all we can do is hope for a change. I watched just about every cartoon Wonder Woman appearance with my nieces a while back, maybe it set in. Maybe they wont be afraid to join the "boys club". Whatever makes them happy.

Its does pose a question though. What made them decide to draw Cheetara the way they did? I agree, she is a runner and loose baggy clothing or heavy armor would only slow her down. But the low cut shirt? The dangerously low pants? Those seem highly impractical . Im not inferring anything about her character, she is after all, fictional. It would speak volumes about the character designer before it ever got to Cheetara.

Im not saying their sexist. Do I think they have the highest opinion of those their selling to ?
maybe, maybe not.

Lets just hope she gets a good back story and development before this shindig is up. Something that says Cheetara is a necessary and valuable component to this story. Not just a " generic wisdom speaking pole with boobs", or god know what else shes been called because of her lack of development.

"So why do you write these strong female characters?"
-Because you're still asking me that question ( Joss Whendon)

My experience with sexism in science was during the 1970s. Even in the 1980s, I was still dealing with biochemists that hurled vagina jokes and disparaging comments at every opportunity. With more women mentors now, I can bet you will find more support than I in whatever field you wish to pursue :) Growing up at a time when you had to kick the door open if you wanted to enter the room, I am constantly aware of what as changed for women and what has not.

Considering the garb the clerics wore while fighting, there is no justification for Cheetara's current outfit other than a Hooters mentality on the part of the design team.

New series and old series may be apples vs oranges, but they are both still fruit and should be delicious, not rotten.

MGP

One thing is certain regarding both the old and the new show: men control the narrative.

MGP

"Nine Tiger, post: 57948" said:

One thing is certain regarding both the old and the new show: men control the narrative.

MGP

Isn't that comment kinda sexist? :confused::D

"Tygra_Rules, post: 57953" said:

Isn't that comment kinda sexist? :confused::D

For the new show, all the scripts so far have been written by men. For the old show, the vast majority of scripts were written by men. Ergo, men control the narrative. Not sexism, merely logic.

MGP

"Nine Tiger, post: 57966" said:

For the new show, all the scripts so far have been written by men. For the old show, the vast majority of scripts were written by men. Ergo, men control the narrative. Not sexism, merely logic.

MGP

What if they were gay men? Not saying they are. Just pointing out you can't judge a writer just because they're male or female.

Joss Wheaton is a male and look at Buffy

"balgus82, post: 57968" said:

What if they were gay men? Not saying they are. Just pointing out you can't judge a writer just because they're male or female.

I don't believe that the possible orientation of the writers then or now is what drives the show to be leaning to the male gender. As stated earlier, it's the target audience they want to get. You could have had Liberache(sp) writing episodes there and he'd be going that direction, or possibly writing for the kitten's and Cheetara. *Shrug* :mummra:

I agree. The gender and orientation of the writers have little, if anything, to do with the direction/aim of the series. This is an action cartoon, therefore, it does get geared towards the male demographic, just like a cartoon like My Little Pony is going to be geared towards the female demographic. Sure, there will be girls who like ThunderCats and boys who like My Little Pony, but the writers will not typically factor that into the story direction.

A prime example of this point is a writer named Karen Traviss. She has written many sci-fi war novels, including the Gears of War series. If you are expecting her novels to read like romance novels, think again. Those books could pass as being written by a former member of a military branch. Why they are written like that has nothing to do with the fact the author is female, it is because the material and target audience require the writing to be geared in that direction.