Completing the Mattel line ourselves

If this is to be attemped, like many have pointed out, to avoid lawsuits the essential thing is to create your own 'buck' get that part, and there's no 'infringement' issues and you can go like for like with the cartoon in terms of likeness aslong as symbols are left off.

so realisticly to make it happen someone would have to actually create a company and then find the 'staff' willing (and good enough) to sculpt the figures, meaning this would have to be done at a somewhat ''large'' scale in terms of amounts produced for it to be worth it, because casting molds to make figures isn't cheap.

"Sebastiaan, post: 121332, member: 25673" said:

Yea that's really a great example of the perfect Cheetara. If they could have done that in the MOTUC scale that would've been fantastic! That really is the best Cheetara on the market today.

For those who haven't seen it yet, there already is a Mumm-Ra "custom" from someone who worked with the 4H on MOTUC and other projects. Check out this fantastic Mumm-Ra the ever living and then also view the video to see his own creations aka "new ThunderCats". Man its so sad that this Mumm-Ra never came out.


He also made custom Tigersharks which are fantastic.
[MEDIA=youtube]_a1FiGadFpU[/MEDIA]

Joe Amato really did justice to his custom ThunderCats and TigerSharks figures.

"plexxrock, post: 121335, member: 26191" said:

If this is to be attemped, like many have pointed out, to avoid lawsuits the essential thing is to create your own 'buck' get that part, and there's no 'infringement' issues and you can go like for like with the cartoon in terms of likeness aslong as symbols are left off...

Actually I am pretty sure there would be an infringement issue for copying the cartoon likenesses.
I believe the likeness of the characters would fall into the animation rights etc.
If we look at the book ''Hear the Roar'' The Unofficial Thundercats Guide as an example, because the author did not have the permission from WB he could not use any imagery associated with cartoon including screengrabs/stills/animation cells or logos etc.
So in that regard I would highly doubt WB would be cool with some company making toys with the exact likenesses based on the cartoon they own.
Those Gokin TMNT figures of Krang and Shredder are good examples. They are cool looking toys as they look a bit like the cartoon but are not anywhere near being called cartoon accurate.
I wouldn't really have any interest in figures that aren't accurate to the cartoon.

First Gokin is the company doing TMNT figures. Perhaps we should contact them with our desires? They have the means.
I don't think likeness is really an issue. I think they could be very accurate without issue based on both TMNT and TF 3rd party releases. I mean Optimus Prime is as iconic as they come and Hasbro is a huge greedy company and we have yet to see any of those stopped.

"Cheetoro, post: 121338, member: 26134" said:

First Gokin is the company doing TMNT figures. Perhaps we should contact them with our desires? They have the means.
I don't think likeness is really an issue. I think they could be very accurate without issue based on both TMNT and TF 3rd party releases. I mean Optimus Prime is as iconic as they come and Hasbro is a huge greedy company and we have yet to see any of those stopped.

Hasbro aren't as greedy as WB and Mattel. Although Hasbro did have an issue a couple years back with 3rd party merchandise being sold and displayed at Transformers conventions. Not sure if that's still the case.
There is a lot of differences though between the Gokin TMNT figures and the various 3rd party Transformers compared to the animation designs. the fact they aren't cartoon accurate is how they can get away with making them.

[ATTACH=full]1730[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=full]1731[/ATTACH]
Here is a comparison of the First Gokin figures to the animation likenesses for Shredder and Krang.
[ATTACH=full]1732[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]1733[/ATTACH]
Some comparisons of a third party Optimus Prime compared to what he looked like in the cartoon.

They are all very cool looking toys but in my opinion official screen accurate versions are better.

"Mark M, post: 121337, member: 5058" said:

I wouldn't really have any interest in figures that aren't accurate to the cartoon.

I feel this way too.

Me, three.

Another issue with third party toys is the price. That Shredder alone is around £100.

It has nothing to do with being accurate to animation models as far as legality. Optimus Prime has had many more official designs and media appearances than just his animation model. Several 3rd party figures are faithful to such iterations, and there are 3rd party figures which aim to be animation accurate anyway and are just as accurate as official Masterpiece releases.

China is the reason they get away with these things. As long as this stuff is made over there, there appears to be little they can do to protect likeness. That works in our favor. They can be very accurate without issue. Let them challenge it - they don't want to spend that money.

"Cheetoro, post: 121376, member: 26134" said:

It has nothing to do with being accurate to animation models as far as legality. Optimus Prime has had many more official designs and media appearances than just his animation model. Several 3rd party figures are faithful to such iterations, and there are 3rd party figures which aim to be animation accurate anyway and are just as accurate as official Masterpiece releases.

China is the reason they get away with these things. As long as this stuff is made over there, there appears to be little they can do to protect likeness. That works in our favor. They can be very accurate without issue. Let them challenge it - they don't want to spend that money.

Yes but Transformers has the advantage of the market being full of knock off toys. No disrespect to the third party companies or the quality of their products but they basically qualify as knock offs.
If Hasbro/Takara were to take legal action against them it would be too costly as there are numerous multiple companies making them.
But I think WB would have a legal issue for one company to start up and produce an entire line of figures based on a TV show they own.
Quite frankly I think if there was no legal issues or a real profitable demand for third party MOTU and Thundercats figures some company would have started making them years ago.
Personally I would love some third party companies to make figures from lots of 80's cartoons like TMNT, Thudnercats, MOTU, Bravestarr, Galaxy Rangers, Dungeons & Dragons, Centurions, Visionaries and Inhuimanoids etc.

I think you are wrong, the 3rd party market has only recently had the tools at it's disposal for manufacturers. They have the ability to design, market, and produce figures because they have an audience thanks to the internet and because they have a country to operate in that doesn't enforce copyright laws seriously. And they finally can produce these at a cost that doesn't completely price them out of collector's reach. These are evolving factors and the 3rd party market is still young and evolving.

Let's see where the future takes us. I definitely think at this point it is both the most viable option and the most worthy of fan support. No point in supporting people like Mattel and WB who don't support us.

"Cheetoro, post: 121393, member: 26134" said:

I think you are wrong, the 3rd party market has only recently had the tools at it's disposal for manufacturers. They have the ability to design, market, and produce figures because they have an audience thanks to the internet and because they have a country to operate in that doesn't enforce copyright laws seriously. And they finally can produce these at a cost that doesn't completely price them out of collector's reach. These are evolving factors and the 3rd party market is still young and evolving.

Let's see where the future takes us. I definitely think at this point it is both the most viable option and the most worthy of fan support. No point in supporting people like Mattel and WB who don't support us.

I agree with what you are saying. But all I am saying is Transformers is a different beast to other brands. The Transformers fan base is huge as Hasbro and Takara and the numerous third party companies are catering to all interests by making toys based on the various cartoons, video games, comic books and their own designs etc to integrate with the various toy lines.
All Thundercats has is the original 80's cartoon and the 2011 series which was quite unpopular in comparison. Any third party company producing Thundercats figures needs to make them as close to the 80's cartoon/toys as they possibly can as that is the only really popular and recognisable versions of the characters.

"Cheetoro, post: 121393, member: 26134" said:

I think you are wrong, the 3rd party market has only recently had the tools at it's disposal for manufacturers. They have the ability to design, market, and produce figures because they have an audience thanks to the internet and because they have a country to operate in that doesn't enforce copyright laws seriously. And they finally can produce these at a cost that doesn't completely price them out of collector's reach. These are evolving factors and the 3rd party market is still young and evolving.

Let's see where the future takes us. I definitely think at this point it is both the most viable option and the most worthy of fan support. No point in supporting people like Mattel and WB who don't support us.

If you take this to its logical conclusion, the prevalence and falling cost of 3D printing will definitely allow for a grey market of unlicensed designs that we could print ourselves (or pay to have printed). Once I have a figure that I've printed myself, I can pay someone to paint it for me—that's entirely legal. And if designers are kind-hearted fans who don't charge for their designs, then everything I've just described is pretty much entirely beyond the reach of the copyright-holder.

Yeah but good luck getting anyone to do anything for free.

"thezaxfactor, post: 121398, member: 362" said:

If you take this to its logical conclusion, the prevalence and falling cost of 3D printing will definitely allow for a grey market of unlicensed designs that we could print ourselves (or pay to have printed). Once I have a figure that I've printed myself, I can pay someone to paint it for me—that's entirely legal. And if designers are kind-hearted fans who don't charge for their designs, then everything I've just described is pretty much entirely beyond the reach of the copyright-holder.

"Alluro Fan, post: 121399, member: 25551" said:

Yeah but good luck getting anyone to do anything for free.

I highly doubt any designer is going to offer their designs for free.

The cost is the big negative on this approach, no doubt about it. But it's all or nothing here. Even if we get another official line, how could we ever trust they will actually complete a decent line up? They cannot be trusted. Fans producing things for fans are much more worthy of our trust.

Thought i'd try a plea video
[MEDIA=youtube]M4BIMqwqNbA[/MEDIA]

"Coptur, post: 121512, member: 1354" said:

Thought i'd try a plea video
[MEDIA=youtube]M4BIMqwqNbA[/MEDIA]

You did great!

We have to stay motivated and vocal.