9/11 What do you think?

What does everyone think about 9/11? I personally think that it was an orchrastrated event from our own government. I believe that this was the work of the Illumanati or the secret shadow groups that basically run everything. It makes the most sense. The US gave money to Osma Bin Laden in the early 90's and trained Al queda. The war in Iraq would never have happened (as it is not a war on civil liberties, and defending freedom and declaring war on terrorism its a war on oil, whoever controlls the oil there controls a big part of the world, and we needed something to get us over there so 9/11 became a scapegoat) think about it Bush senior goes to war in Iraq (how convienent that during the Bush 2 presidency we get attacked and have to go back) We never could have gone back if something didnt happen to make the average non-patriotic citizens (meaning the everyday people that had forgotten what the country was all about) become patriotic again and thus we have a national disastor. Does it really make sense that Osma Bin Laden is so hard to find as the most hunted man on the planet. this makes no sense to me when we have satellites that can look into your house, I believe the government knows exactly where he is and is hiding and protecting him. Osma needs to be out there because it gives the American people a target/scapegoat for there hatred from 9/11 and takes the pressure of the US government and the Illumanti and allows us to still be in Iraq despite all the citizens protests. We are no longer a country run by the people but a country whose rights have been handed over to the shadow government that runs the government.

No offense - but I do not believe a WORD of that. Honestly, there are many other cultures that grow up resentful of our country and others that are resentful of our culture, be it because of spiritual or religious belief or just plain jealousy. Think back to when you were in high school...was there a bigger, more popular kid with rich parents that had his hands on the girls that you wanted? That is how other some citizens of other countries view America. We are monetarily rich, resource rich, influential, and we have a relatively lax moral code based on the freedoms granted to us in the first amendment. I believe that a group of brainwashed extremists (religious fantatics) who were raised to despise this country and everything we stand for tried to make us suffer for our way of life.

That being said, the government might have flubbed up in dealing with it. We may have had intelligence informing us of this consipiracy, but we get TONS of tidbits of intelligence on an hourly basis that never come to fruition. I do not believe in the Illuminati and I do not believe 99% of the conspiracy theories out there.

Oil is not the end-all be-all of controlling the world. In 50 years, oil will be a commodity that is scare and that is rarely used in our day-to-day operations. I do not think our government is so megolomaniacal that we would sacrifice tons of people, money, and resources to go after a threat that we created.

I think we do know where Osama is. Why we haven't killed him? Let his kidneys take care of that. He is in horrible shape healthwise, and why should we have his blood on our hands. He will die sooner than later. Capturing Osama does not stop other religious extremists from hating us and it does not stop other terrorist cells from plotting against us. If we kill him, he will die a martyr. If nature kills him, he just dies.

Matt you brought up some interesting points and although i dont agree that it was an orchestrated attack, meaning the U.S was in cahoots with Osama it sure raises questions as to why he hasnt been caught yet. Like you mention statellites can see everything so why not concentrate a certain staellite to scan for movement in the suspected area where he is located. Or even better yet why not just flatten all those mountains. Im sure he'll come out or die inside his cave. Truthfully Im tired of hearing about 9/11, tired of hearing about the Iraq war, how many soldiers die there every month. I've been in war, Ive been in Iraq and experienced first hand what it is like. Going thru it at the time is tough but the aftermath of the return home and what happens months and even years after coming back from war are not good things. I'm speaking about things like PTSD, Depression, Emotional Distress and to an extent Physical distress. If only the government realized that its time to bring the troops home. Let the Iraqis take charge of their future. We, as a country went thru the same process and I dont think we received backup from anyone else,so why are we sticking our noses in Iraq, let them deal with their issues and sort it out themselves. They need to take control of their own destiny and that wont happen unless we get the hell out. Yes I am a soldier and if i get sent again I have no choice, but it irks me when there's people out there that think being a soldeir is an easy thing when its not. Life as a soldier is full of uncertainties, period.

Dan- No offense taken.
I agree with you for some part on the fact that the attack had something to do with people being jealous of us. In fact I think thats how certain individuals were persuaded to take part in the attack, becasue of that jealousy. The religious extremists you mention make the perfect canidates to do this after Osama had brainwashed them.
If oil is not the end all be all of the world right now why did the government buy up an idea to make a more efficient engine idea after WW2. I do think that one day it will be something else sort of like how gold and silver has lost there importance (everyone has move on to platinum), but untill that day I think the government and oil companies are the bestest friends/partners and do what they can to support each other.

The last thing you said about Osama is very interesting the part about him being a Martyr if he dies at our hand. I never thought about that before it is an interesting thought, but I would say that he has such a following anyway that he is already a martyr and I dont think anything can change that.

Matt,
I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say that the government and oil companies are best friends.

Also, I don't see how the 9/11 attacks have done anything to improve our (lack of) a stronghold on oil. The US is very oil poor...we buy almost all of it from the Middle East and South America.

Care to elaborate how the war on terror is really a war on oil?

One last note is that I'm unsure of what you mean by Osama is already a martyr...I think you have to die for a cause to become one. IMO, bringing him down doesn't do anything to defeat al Qaeda or any other terrorist organization. They MUST have many capable leaders that are able to take over in his stead. Keep in mind that being brilliant is a mutually exclusive trait from being sane.

For those that dont know and this is just a rumour that has been going on since the war started but originally when the war started there were 2 choices on what to call the operation. Number 1 was: Operation Iraqi Liberation and Number 2: Operation Iraqi Freedom. Look carefully at those two names and you'll figure out why one was chosen over the other. My opinion is this war was not about WMD, this war was not about Saddam Hussein, this war was not even about terrorism, plain and simple the US wants their paws on the Mid East oil because we are an oil poor region. Why is it that all of a sudden hybrid cars are starting to become the norm? The purpose of this so called war is OIL and nothing else

Manny,
I honestly have a hard time believing we would sacrifice so many of our men and women for crude. How can this war possibly help us get our hands on oil? We get very little oil from Iraq to begin with. I think it's something like 8%, if that. Saddam was a terrorist. He and his sons had the blood of tens and possibly hundreds of thousands of people on their hands. Thankfully we went in and put an end to his barbarianism - it would've been nice if somebody did that for the 12,000,000 people killed by Hitler during WW2.

"dan07, post: 11720" said:

Manny,
I honestly have a hard time believing we would sacrifice so many of our men and women for crude. How can this war possibly help us get our hands on oil? We get very little oil from Iraq to begin with. I think it's something like 8%, if that. Saddam was a terrorist. He and his sons had the blood of tens and possibly hundreds of thousands of people on their hands. Thankfully we went in and put an end to his barbarianism - it would've been nice if somebody did that for the 12,000,000 people killed by Hitler during WW2.

I understand your point Dan but look back at WW2 and look at the purpose at the time for that war. Hitler wanted to conquer everything, he wanted everything so until somebody stepped then his crazyness came to an end. Yes Saddam had the blood of tens of thousands of people from Iraq but does it really make it any different send our soldiers to a country that doesnt even want to help themselves? C'mon put sectarian beliefs aside, put Sunni and Shiite aside and start think like humans and not religion and maybe just maybe they will realize that what theyre doing is hurting their country and their way of life. We may get very little oil from Iraq now but wait 10 years from now and you will see. The US is spending now to get results later. By me saying spending I mean spending and sending sons,daughters,mothers and fathers to die in a conflict. Whats the difference going to be if the troops withdraw. Would it mean less terrorist attacks on the US, less attacks on the rest of the world...lets be real we're sending our troops to die for a cause that has been going on for hundreds of years between Sunnis and Shiites. A useless cause IMHO

I honestly do not think this is a war about oil. Why are we in Iraq now? We wanted to dethrown the maniac that was in charge before. Saddam was always on the pulpit preaching about the differences between Shiites and Sunnis, which is a reason that they hate each other. We are there to end a long era of tyranny. Oil is a hot topic now due to the developing nations of India and China...they have a combined 2 BILLION people, roughly 1/3 of the world's population. With their rapid industrialization, oil supplies will run dry much quicker than people predicted. This is why there is such a push for conserving oil, and alternative fuels. Oil also does not burn clean. It pollutes the air, causes the ozone to deplete, and releases carcinogens as a by product. What is to like about oil? We may be able to ween ourselves off of oil in 10-15 years. We don't need it to heat homes...nuclear power is clean and effective. Everyone is still afraid of another Chernobyl, but technology is much better now and it requires extremely competent people running it - not Homer Simpsons.

"dan07, post: 11718" said:

Matt,
I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say that the government and oil companies are best friends.

Also, I don't see how the 9/11 attacks have done anything to improve our (lack of) a stronghold on oil. The US is very oil poor...we buy almost all of it from the Middle East and South America.

Care to elaborate how the war on terror is really a war on oil?

One last note is that I'm unsure of what you mean by Osama is already a martyr...I think you have to die for a cause to become one. IMO, bringing him down doesn't do anything to defeat al Qaeda or any other terrorist organization. They MUST have many capable leaders that are able to take over in his stead. Keep in mind that being brilliant is a mutually exclusive trait from being sane.

Dan what I mean is that the war and attacks weren't meant to improve our people's demand for oil. Just the people that profit off of the oil. The oil will always be around for the common people to purchase at whatever price the monopolies (ie the government and big oil companies) tell us to pay for it because we are so dependent upon it. It's not really a war on oil I guess I didnt really proofread, its a war for control of oil profit. Just like once the hybrid cars really kick in I think that electric prices will skyrocket. The government and oil companies hold each others hands what one does only benefits the other.

you do have to die to be a matyr. I say Osama is one because of all the fundamentalist Muslim's that follow him. When he dies no matter how it happens he will be a matyr for the fact that he lead these people on there holy quest to get to Allah and there 40 virigins. They already respect him, to the point that when he dies it will be ultimately blamed on the US as we forced him into hiding, and he had to orchestrate his plans from hiding out

Dan Saddam might have been a terrorist but history dictates that the US only gets involved when we want something or something can be gained for us. Look at Somilia a few years ago, we never went in there untill the last possible minute. People are dieing by the thousands untill we realized how close Somilia was to Iraq, then there is the Iran/Contra scandel, the Us going to get Milosovic (Clinton went there cause he wanted the publicity off of his scandel), The CIA having world leaders killed that switched there viewpoints to opposite ours (when we knew all along they were involved in the drug racket). It's in the US's best interest to go to Iraq and claim to be freeing the people there from a awful dictator. Truth is the US could have cared less what Saddam was doing if we really cared and wanted to stop him we would have done so in the 80's.

Saddam did not get the Shiites and Suddis to hate each other. They have hated each other for the longest time. Hate is part of the human condtion and it just didnt sprout up with Saddam

Hi Matt,

I see this very differently than you - not that it's a bad thing.

In my eyes:
1. Oil companies are not monopolies or even oligopolies - there are many companies that operate in this industry.

2. I still don't see that oil companies and the government hold each other's hand.

3. Electricity prices will shoot up, but that is basic economics - good ole supply and demand.

4. The religious extremists will try to make Osama a martyr, but I don't see it working if he dies of a disease. It's a much harder case to make

5. What would Osama want with a bunch of virgins anyway? They're virgins for a reason! Sounds like all he will be doing is regretting his decision in the afterlife...

6. Sunnis and Shiites have hated each other forever...BUT Saddam perpetuated that hate. It's like Bush going to Israel and whispering in their ears about how much they should hate Jordan. It just makes the hate grow stronger instead of giving it the slightest chance of dissipation.

7. We do only go into select countries. We are not World Police. I would say that Bush has a personal vendetta against Saddam from Bush the elder's presidency. I'm sure there was a lot more to it than that, but I do not feel oil was the cause. We still will not get our hands on their oil reserves. Japan and China have stake claims over in Iraq already. But, Saddam did provoke us, refused to cooperate with us, so we went over there. If Kim Jong Il didn't back up, we might've ended up in N. Korea soon.

Dan I'm glad you see it differently than me cause if you didnt this would have been a boring thread.

Osama wants the virgins as it's part of the Muslim faith, that if you die a matyr for the faith 40 virgins will be waiting for with Allah when you die.

I still think Osama will be a matyr whenever he dies no matter how he dies, with the support that he has

I agree that bush has a personal vedetta against Saddam

About the importance of oil, since it will eventually end soon, I don't think all that war was about it. Today there are more and more ways of having other kinds of "fuel" and not bad for the environment.

For instance, in Brazil, where I come from, one of the most used car fuel used is Alcohol, that is produced from sugar canes. This is one "enviroment-friendly" and its "endless"! You grow the sugar canes, you make the fuel, you grow again, more fuel... It may not make you car "powerful" as a Muscle-Car, but it does behave very well. And its a LOT cheaper (like, 1 galon is half the price of a gasoline galon) and it makes your car ride almost the same miles.

So, I don't believe it was all about oil, only if there weren't other alternatives to it...

I just don't understand how anyone could destroy so many lives and believe that they're doing a good thing.

One of the planes that hit the towers had a bunch of grade schoolers on it they were on a field trip. How in the world can a grown man despite his beliefs look into the faces of children and decide their fate....well anyone's fates for that matter?

Sandy Bradshaw was on flight 93, she was a flight attendant and North Carolina native. She lived in Greenboro. I didn't know her, but she was a Tarheel and I'm sorry she and all the other victims died September 11th.